Converting the Dukes of Hell

[Grazzt]

i was also thinking we should probably also have an ability score array for these guys to make things even easier - maybe add one point per HD to give the tougher guys an even edge. that, and/or +1 / 4 HD. we should figure out what that needs to be, to be comparable to other archdevils.

Cool thread. Thanks for the heads up Boz-man.

Just my 2-cents. I would set up an array for use when doing these guys. The 3e DDG book used an array for the gods, and IIRC I added up the ability scores for the demons and devils in BoVD and they were fairly close as well (unless Im remember wrong).

I did use an array for the demons/devils in Tome 1, 2, and 3. (And likely will do so in Tome 4 should we 100% green light that project).

 

[BOZ]

thanks scott. take your coat off and stick around for awhile.

I think we had developed some standard archdevil abilities based on the BoVD in an earlier thread . . . something like "Statting Epic Level Fiends"?

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=68129

not sure how useful it will be, since that was over 3 years ago. well, there is some useful stuff on page 2 actually (and a little more on p3).

it did remind me of AC bonuses though. looking through FC2, i see that most of the aspects have +5 deflection bonuses, and many have armor or shield bonuses. in BoVD, they all had insight bonuses, while Bel had a deflection bonuses, and Dispater has a shield bonuses. naturally (heh), all should have natural AC bonuses, but we should figure out how that is determined.

 

[Shade]

Hi Scott!

it did remind me of AC bonuses though. looking through FC2, i see that most of the aspects have +5 deflection bonuses, and many have armor or shield bonuses. in BoVD, they all had insight bonuses, while Bel had a deflection bonuses, and Dispater has a shield bonuses. naturally (heh), all should have natural AC bonuses, but we should figure out how that is determined.

Note that in FCII, those deflection bonuses are attributed to most of them possessing rings of protection.

Many also have cloaks of resistance.

Belial also has an amulet of natural armor, which does nothing for him since he already has a natural armor bonus.

 

[BOZ]

whaaaat! well we're ignoring that .

 

[Grazzt]

whaaaat! well we're ignoring that .

If ya wanna ignore it, give them a deflection bonus (or whatever) based on their Charisma modifier/bonus. That's how I did it in Tome. (Doesnt jive with the 'official' stuff I guess...but seemed to make sense at the time...to me anyway)

 

[Knight Otu]

Belial also has an amulet of natural armor, which does nothing for him since he already has a natural armor bonus.

An amulet of natural armor does stack* with existing natural armor. I've got no real input at this time, but since I'm not subscribed to this thread, I'll poke my head in from time to time.

*Technically, it increases the bonus. It grants an enhancement bonus to the natural armor bonus.

 

[BOZ]

If ya wanna ignore it, give them a deflection bonus (or whatever) based on their Charisma modifier/bonus. That's how I did it in Tome. (Doesnt jive with the 'official' stuff I guess...but seemed to make sense at the time...to me anyway)

either that, or an insight bonus equal to Wis mod (kind of like they have in BoVD, but not exactly). i'll be fine with either.

that, and we need a mechanic to determine what the natural armor should be (again, to make it easier on us later). 1/2 HD might be a good number, for example. maybe that plus Con mod?

 

[Shade]

An amulet of natural armor does stack* with existing natural armor. I've got no real input at this time, but since I'm not subscribed to this thread, I'll poke my head in from time to time.

*Technically, it increases the bonus. It grants an enhancement bonus to the natural armor bonus.

Well I'll be...you learn something new every day.

either that, or an insight bonus equal to Wis mod (kind of like they have in BoVD, but not exactly). i'll be fine with either.

I'm fine with the insight bonus, since the Demonomicon versions of the archfiends retain it.

that, and we need a mechanic to determine what the natural armor should be (again, to make it easier on us later). 1/2 HD might be a good number, for example. maybe that plus Con mod?

I'm not sure if a formula was used for any of the others, so I'm not convinced we need to get locked into one here. It might be best just to "eyeball" it on an individual basis.

For ability score arrays, here's how the others look, by CR:

CR 19
Fierna: Str 27, Dex 23, Con 25, Int 26, Wis 26, Cha 37

CR 20
Pit Fiend: Str 37, Dex 27, Con 27, Int 26, Wis 26, Cha 26
Aspect of Bel: Str 38, Dex 15, Con 30, Int 27, Wis 27, Cha 25
Bel: Str 40, Dex 16, Con 32, Int 27, Wis 27, Cha 25

CR 21
Belial: Str 27, Dex 23, Con 25, Int 26, Wis 26, Cha 37
Aspect of Dispater: Str 37, Dex 14, Con 35, Int 29, Wis 22, Cha 29
Aspect of Levistus: Str 24, Dex 24, Con 29, Int 25, Wis 32, Cha 27
Aspect of Mammon: Str 34, Dex 15, Con 33, Int 28, Wis 29, Cha 25

CR 22
Aspect of Glasya: Str 27, Dex 34, Con 27, Int 27, Wis 28, Cha 36
Geryon: Str 36, Dex 19, Con 35, Int 26, Wis 24, Cha 23
Hag Countess: Str 31, Dex 26, Con 24, Int 28, Wis 31, Cha 28

CR 23
Aspect of Baalzebul: Str 39, Dex 13, Con 34, Int 28, Wis 27, Cha 25

CR 24
Aspect of Mephistopheles: Str 25, Dex 27, Con 26, Int 27, Wis 31, Cha 28
Belial: Str 29, Dex 25, Con 27, Int 28, Wis 28, Cha 39
Fierna: Str 29, Dex 25, Con 27, Int 28, Wis 28, Cha 39

CR 25
Mammon: Str 36, Dex 17, Con 35, Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 27
Levistus: Str 26, Dex 26, Con 31, Int 27, Wis 34, Cha 29

CR 26
Dispater: Str 39, Dex 16, Con 37, Int 31, Wis 24, Cha 31

 

[BOZ]

I'm fine with the insight bonus, since the Demonomicon versions of the archfiends retain it.

good deal - that'll keep it simple.

I'm not sure if a formula was used for any of the others, so I'm not convinced we need to get locked into one here. It might be best just to "eyeball" it on an individual basis.

OK then, to make it easy, maybe we could come up with a chart based on "if it's 1E AC was X, then it's 3E AC should be X" (with some slight adjustment based on CR?) and just assign nat armor based on what is left over given the devil's other modifiers.

For ability score arrays, here's how the others look, by CR:

OK, i'll have a look at that to see if i can guess a pattern.

obviously, that's a lot heftier than the elite array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8

by the same token, it's weaker than the deity array, which per the Deities and Demigods FAQ is 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24, along with 1 ability point per divine rank, and the usual 1 ability point per four class levels, and any applicable racial adjustments.

happy medium perhaps?

 

[Shade]

OK then, to make it easy, maybe we could come up with a chart based on "if it's 1E AC was X, then it's 3E AC should be X" (with some slight adjustment based on CR?) and just assign nat armor based on what is left over given the devil's other modifiers.

That could work.

OK, i'll have a look at that to see if i can guess a pattern.

obviously, that's a lot heftier than the elite array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8

by the same token, it's weaker than the deity array, which per the Deities and Demigods FAQ is 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24, along with 1 ability point per divine rank, and the usual 1 ability point per four class levels, and any applicable racial adjustments.

happy medium perhaps?

Hmmm...in the past when we converted unique entities, didn't we just determine the ability score total points available, and then divide as we saw fit? That might work better than attempting an array, unless we can determine the pattern.