D&D 5E [+] Converting WFRP to 5e


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I've actually created a WFRP retroclone using 5e base mechanics; Raven's Beak. It takes the base resolution mechanics from 5e and some version of the careers, wounds, and a few others from WFRP. Plus the funnel from DCC, something based on the Chaos Gods, and a few other things from elsewhere.
 

Retreater

Legend
We're slated to have our first big combat tonight, so we'll see how it goes. My guess is that tonight will be the make-or-break session for the system. So I might be on here tomorrow trying to convert the campaign to D&D. Haha.
 

TheSword

Legend
Good luck with the combat. There are very good house rules for Magic on the WFRP discord forums you could maybe discuss with your wizard player. Don’t be afraid liberally give access to magic ingredients as treasure to your wizard character either. Magic becomes lot more stable with them.
 

TheSword

Legend
This thread has gone completely off the actual topic with dozen or so posts arguing not to bother and suggesting using other systems. Which kind of defies the point and totally ignores the premise of the + thread. It might serve as a useful guide for someone giving it a go 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Retreater

Legend
This thread has gone completely off the actual topic with dozen or so posts arguing not to bother and suggesting using other systems. Which kind of defies the point and totally ignores the premise of the + thread. It might serve as a useful guide for someone giving it a go 🤷🏻‍♂️
Sorry for my role in getting it off topic. That's just been on my mind lately with the current game.
I'll be fresh with relevant ideas if things don't go well tonight.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
This thread has gone completely off the actual topic with dozen or so posts arguing not to bother and suggesting using other systems. Which kind of defies the point and totally ignores the premise of the + thread. It might serve as a useful guide for someone giving it a go 🤷🏻‍♂️
I'm sorry I wasn't able to give you the advice you needed (I still think that the GLOG might do it), but from my long experience with both systems, I don't see how it can be done.

perhaps if basic career was level 1, advanced level 2, and the "2nd advanced" career was level 3? But would the players accept that at all?
 

CapnZapp

Legend
This thread has gone completely off the actual topic with dozen or so posts arguing not to bother and suggesting using other systems. Which kind of defies the point and totally ignores the premise of the + thread. It might serve as a useful guide for someone giving it a go 🤷🏻‍♂️
I too tried being constructive.

What's constructive here, I think, is to interpret the thread's direction as not very many people being interested in merely a light veneer of WFRP on top of a regular game of D&D. I do understand that someone new to The Old World might consider such an idea alluring (you're far from the first!) but as you learn what makes WFRP tick you realize how it was truly designed as a reaction to D&D; it tries really hard to be everything D&D isn't (and succeeds phenomenally if you ask me!)

I mean, the alternative would be for your thread to remain totally empty. Not sure if you would have preferred that. In the meantime, at least the thread now contains a fair amount of useful pointers for those readers that do want WFRP but not using the current 4th edition.

A worthwhile goal, even if it wasn't your original intention with the thread - especially since I think the 4th edition ruleset is truly broken and very much not the improvement on 2nd edition it was sold as.

But that's a subject for another day...

Cheers
 

CapnZapp

Legend
I've actually created a WFRP retroclone using 5e base mechanics; Raven's Beak. It takes the base resolution mechanics from 5e and some version of the careers, wounds, and a few others from WFRP. Plus the funnel from DCC, something based on the Chaos Gods, and a few other things from elsewhere.
"Changes are extensive, with the class system and magic system entirely replaced, and the skill and damage systems both overhauled"

This is the crucial point. (Talking to the thread in general now)

While I completely agree such major change is needed, for the context of this thread, the question that needs to be asked: is it even 5E at that point?

I genuinely mean no slight to Neon's project, but for me (and presumably Sword) the draw of 5E isn't the basic concept of rolling a d20 (instead of say 3d6 or d100), it is the classes and spells and monsters etc

Since all that needs to go to "properly" experience the Old World, why not jump to another game entirely? (That's a rhetorical question. I do fully understand rebuilding WFRP on top of the d20 engine can be a fun design challenge, and I really hope and wish you had the best of fun writing it Neon, but I think it is best seen as a curiosity with limited utility.) Everything in D&D (hit points, armor class, saves, a very limited skill system...) is geared for streamlined fun monster combat and once that is no longer the point or one of the main points of the game, I think all of D&D's advantages fall away.

You could totally use D&D for Warhammer Fantasy Battle heroic combat between larger-than-life army heroes, though! (Of course that has nothing to do with the Raven's Beak project. I'm just trying to be constructive by painting a picture of a D&D conversion that actually uses the strengths of the system!)

But nice link anyway. I'll read it more closely for ideas and inspiration! :)

Cheers
 
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TheSword

Legend
I too tried being constructive.

What's constructive here, I think, is to interpret the thread's direction as not very many people being interested in merely a light veneer of WFRP on top of a regular game of D&D. I do understand that someone new to The Old World might consider such an idea alluring (you're far from the first!) but as you learn what makes WFRP tick you realize how it was truly designed as a reaction to D&D; it tries really hard to be everything D&D isn't (and succeeds phenomenally if you ask me!)

I mean, the alternative would be for your thread to remain totally empty. Not sure if you would have preferred that. In the meantime, at least the thread now contains a fair amount of useful pointers for those readers that do want WFRP but not using the current 4th edition.

A worthwhile goal, even if it wasn't your original intention with the thread - especially since I think the 4th edition ruleset is truly broken and very much not the improvement on 2nd edition it was sold as.

But that's a subject for another day...

Cheers
I’m not not new to the old world, I’ve ran the original Enemy Within in two previous editions and I still have my White Dwarf magazines. Bringing elements of WFRP to 5e still appeals to me because it could bring the world to a new audience that currently only knows 5e and is reluctant to try other systems.

This was not about creating an exact replica, but about bringing 5e to the point where you can convert an adventure as I said in my OP. Plenty of people commented constructively on the topic and I was more than happy. No doubt it would have been added to in time. I was also intending to post some 5e conversion work of some of those adventures.

You yourself acknowledged that it was a + thread. It just gets wearing in a thread designed to explore a topic when 5 or 6 people jump on to say something can’t be done, because it wouldn’t be to their liking.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
I’m not not new to the old world, I’ve ran the original Enemy Within in two previous editions and I still have my White Dwarf magazines. Bringing elements of WFRP to 5e still appeals to me because it could bring the world to a new audience that currently only knows 5e and is reluctant to try other systems.

This was not about creating an exact replica, but about bringing 5e to the point where you can convert an adventure as I said in my OP. Plenty of people commented constructively on the topic and I was more than happy. No doubt it would have been added to in time. I was also intending to post some 5e conversion work of some of those adventures.

You yourself acknowledged that it was a + thread. It just gets wearing in a thread designed to explore a topic when 5 or 6 people jump on to say something can’t be done, because it wouldn’t be to their liking.
I completely understand that sentiment. I have been in your situation many times only to see detractors derail the topic. And i have argued myself for "don't do it" replies in a plus thread to be considered off topic and that moderators ask repeat offenders to leave the thread. Unfortunately so far the mod team have not been interested, possibly conflating this suggestion with attempts to own or control the thread.

Best of luck
 
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Voadam

Legend
I was also intending to post some 5e conversion work of some of those adventures.
As someone who does 5e as my game of choice but who also has played WFRP, enjoys the world, has heard good things about the Enemy Within campaign and got some of the Enemy Within modules in the Humble Bundle deal, I would be interested in module conversion efforts.
 

Retreater

Legend
Despite some minor issues, our first "big" combat in WFRP went ok on my Wednesday test group, but as a thought exercise (and a sneaking suspicion the group won't want to stick with it through The Enemy Within) I think I'll try to piece together a rules simplification using some of the suggestions here and my own.
Honestly the campaign is so massive and complex that struggling with the rules set will make it more challenging for GMs and players.
 

TheSword

Legend
Despite some minor issues, our first "big" combat in WFRP went ok on my Wednesday test group, but as a thought exercise (and a sneaking suspicion the group won't want to stick with it through The Enemy Within) I think I'll try to piece together a rules simplification using some of the suggestions here and my own.
Honestly the campaign is so massive and complex that struggling with the rules set will make it more challenging for GMs and players.
I’m lucky enough to have ran it before in its original incarnation. It’s very much a meandering campaign, going where the wind takes it. I have plans for lots of the modules to insert so those are probably what I would insert.

One thing you could do is switch to 5e and ask the players to try and recreate them in 5e terms. Preserving the character style and lore.
 

Retreater

Legend
I’m lucky enough to have ran it before in its original incarnation. It’s very much a meandering campaign, going where the wind takes it. I have plans for lots of the modules to insert so those are probably what I would insert.

One thing you could do is switch to 5e and ask the players to try and recreate them in 5e terms. Preserving the character style and lore.
We haven't started it yet. I've been running the Starter Set for us to all learn the system. We have probably one more session of that, then a Session 0 for Enemy Within following.
 



Jaeger

That someone better
We're slated to have our first big combat tonight, so we'll see how it goes. My guess is that tonight will be the make-or-break session for the system. So I might be on here tomorrow trying to convert the campaign to D&D. Haha.

Shaking my head at what C7 did to WFRP mechanics in 4e (I have stuff for 1&2e)

A lot became clear when I came across this indispensable piece of advice on another forum:

"One important tip for anyone who wants to give 4E a spin: You have to use the Fast SL optional rule on p.152. Not only is it easier at the table, it's the way the game worked all through playtesting. All the Talents and the Advantage system assume you are using Fast SL. I'm not clear on the why, but someone decided to flip the way SL worked at the last minute, and broke a lot of the game."

Everything makes so much more sense, and works so much better...


While I completely agree such major change is needed, for the context of this thread, the question that needs to be asked: is it even 5E at that point?

I think that the objective of a d20 - WFRP conversion is so that the core ideas for how the game works will be recognizable and more intuitive for groups that only play 5e D&D.

I absolutely maintain that a d20 version of WFRP could be made that captures the essential spirit of the game - but it will not be "the same" as 5e D&D.


This was not about creating an exact replica, but about bringing 5e to the point where you can convert an adventure as I said in my OP. Plenty of people commented constructively on the topic and I was more than happy. No doubt it would have been added to in time. I was also intending to post some 5e conversion work of some of those adventures.

IMHO, at a minimum you would have to stop HP progression at 3rd level, use massive damage rules, and take a cleaver to the spell/cantrip system. And then you would have to deal with the knock on effects these have on the classes...

At that point you might as well take the underlying math of how the 5e d20 engine works and make a bespoke WFRP conversion.

It'll take a lot of work but it can be done.
 

Mournblade94

Adventurer
I'm currently running the Horned Rat. I am not trying to poo on this idea, but WFRP is so simple a system why not just use that. I think you are going to really really over complicate things using 5e. WFRP and Empire in Ruins is a perfect match.

If you want to play 5e for this have at it, but the Enemy WIthin "remaster" is just so smooth. I am having a blast running this, and I think if I was to do this in 5e I'd really be having problems.

I love complexity and though WFRP is simple, it really covers its bases for the "3 pillars" extremely well, and that exploration and investigation abilities are going to be really important for this campaign. WFRP makes it that any character can really contribute to the investigation. I think you have to re-engineer 5e a bit to make some classes contribute well.
 

Retreater

Legend
I'm currently running the Horned Rat. I am not trying to poo on this idea, but WFRP is so simple a system why not just use that. I think you are going to really really over complicate things using 5e. WFRP and Empire in Ruins is a perfect match.
Your experience and mine are completely different. WFRP 4e is probably the most complicated system I've played in the modern era (post-2000).
 

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