D&D 5E Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.

[ezo]

That also seems to be the reason why they now have floating ability bonuses, can't have one race be naturally smarter than the others.

Oh, I know, Heaven forbid such a thing!

Frankly, they would have been better off removing racial ASI completely IMO. PCs already have better than average ability scores compared to non-PCs due to how scores are generated, so they are unnecessary.

But at any rate, none of this really has anything to do with the topic of the thread, so @Mecheon and @Vaalingrade I've removed what I was going to post in response to you both. It's an old topic that has been rehashed many times over and we will not agree. If you do want to continue it, however, feel free to DM me.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I was happily surprised to finally see some ability score PENALTIES! They belong in the game and, of course, every group I play in uses them.

Of course, small-size should have penalties as well, but on the other side they should have benefits that aren't there, either. I guess instead of -1 + 1 = 0, then just went with 0 = 0 this time.

i don't think people would mind the penalties half as much if they actually had equitable boons to balance them out (though there will always be some who turn at having any penalties), just being told 'this species is overall worse at a bunch of stuff, no there's not really a notable upside in compensation' really stinks.

 

[Horwath]

i don't think people would mind the penalties half as much if they actually had equitable boons to balance them out (though there will always be some who turn at having any penalties), just being told 'this species is overall worse at a bunch of stuff, no there's not really a notable upside in compensation' really stinks.

I would not mind penalties, but not having them opens up many character concepts, also most of the races(species) are humans+cosmetics, so generally same ability is expected.


but small vs. medium size strength being equal is breaking the disbelieve a little;

average halfling vs average human would make Flyweight vs. super heavyweight completely fair match by comparison.

same goes goes for medium vs. large; you should be one of the strongest humans alive to go against an anorexic ogre and hoping to win a wrestle match.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I would not mind penalties, but not having them opens up many character concepts, also most of the races(species) are humans+cosmetics, so generally same ability is expected.

that's true enough i guess, but even if there aren't penalties i still wish species had their own things that gave them niches that meant they specifically could truly excell at it in ways others couldn't.

 

[Horwath]

that's true enough i guess, but even if there aren't penalties i still wish species had their own things that gave them niches that meant they specifically could truly excell at it in ways others couldn't.

if species get to specific powers, we can again end up with narrow cookie cutter builds race+class combo that works best or only in that specific combo.

I.E. halforc bonus weapon damage on melee criticals.
This best works on a barbarian and with a great ax. How stereotypical, half orc barbarian with a great ax. after that champion fighter(the dumbest subclass, who could have guessed that works best with half orc), or best barbarian-champion multiclass.

why can't be more general?
I.E. +1d8 damage on crit with 1Handed weapons and ranged attacks and +d12 with 2Handed attacks.

Eladrin/astral elf/shadar-kai's teleport works with all concepts, every one can utilize Bonus action teleport.
Same with Aasiamars fly speed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would not mind penalties, but not having them opens up many character concepts, also most of the races(species) are humans+cosmetics, so generally same ability is expected.


but small vs. medium size strength being equal is breaking the disbelieve a little;

average halfling vs average human would make Flyweight vs. super heavyweight completely fair match by comparison.

same goes goes for medium vs. large; you should be one of the strongest humans alive to go against an anorexic ogre and hoping to win a wrestle match.

Yup. The trend in WotC since moving on from 3e has been increasingly away from real world logic and towards narrative logic. Not the path everyone prefers, so its good alternative ways to play 5e are rising in prominence.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Ranger is the only class in 5e that combines in equal parts Meele, Skill and Divine/Primal Magic.

Ranger can go in meele like a fighter, has as many skills as a bard and cancast divine magic. Fighter and Rogue can learn Arcane Magic, which often means much different style of play. Artificer could potentially match the same requirements but again, Arcane and the vibe is different. Besides, Rogue will never fight as good as a fighter, Fighter will never be as good skillmonkey as Rogue. Bard, Wizard or Warlock could potentially get meele and magic and maybe skills, but it's all within the Arcane. Monk is meele plus skill, in theory (should get one more skill imo). Paladin combines divine magic and meele, but has no skill.

And you could say "what about multiclassing?". I hear you. Well, what ABOUT multiclassing? It's an optional rule, DM is in full right to ban it and, honestly, a new DM would be justified to do so. I heard stories of how multiclassing can destroy the game balance, so it may be a good idea to ban it. And, come to think about it, multiclassing destroys reason for any class to exist. Why be a Paladin when you could multiclass Fighter and Cleric? Why be a Rogue when you could multiclass Ranger and Monk? Why be Bard when you could multiclass Rogue and Sorcerer?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Yup. The trend in WotC since moving on from 3e has been increasingly away from real world logic and towards narrative logic. Not the path everyone prefers, so its good alternative ways to play 5e are rising in prominence.

I will ask - if you want to hammer down 5e into being realistic, why are you playing 5e? Play Warhammer Fantasy, it does that better. Argurably it ALWAYS did that better than D&D, any edition.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I will ask - if you want to hammer down 5e into being realistic, why are you playing 5e? Play Warhammer Fantasy, it does that better. Argurably it ALWAYS did that better than D&D, any edition.

Well, there are degrees. That people are fine with some level of cinematic action hero stuff in their fantasy game doesn't mean that their disbelief suspenders have infinite capacity. How D&D handles size is certainly an area mine struggle with.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I will ask - if you want to hammer down 5e into being realistic, why are you playing 5e? Play Warhammer Fantasy, it does that better. Argurably it ALWAYS did that better than D&D, any edition.

Because you run the game your players want to play, and you make it as close to what you want as they let you. Pretty simple really.