D&D 5E Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.

[ezo]

Getting rid of stat penalties removes choices based on what I want, though. I used to be able to play against type by putting an 18 that I rolled into intelligence and play the rare orc wizard. Now I can't do that, because orcs have no type to play against. Nor does any other race. The removal of stat penalties combined with the floating bonuses ensures that the ability to choose to play a racial type or choose to play against a racial type have permanently been taken away from me.

Meh, we just keep the ASIs as they were meant to be, where some races are smarter, stronger, faster, etc. than others.

 

[Maxperson]

Meh, we just keep the ASIs as they were meant to be, where some races are smarter, stronger, faster, etc. than others.

That helps, but there still isn't really an "against type" with that. The type for races with only bonuses is all, but some types are a bit better than others. With a penalty, going into a class that uses the penalized stat as it's prime is definitely against type.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Getting rid of stat penalties removes choices based on what I want, though. I used to be able to play against type by putting an 18 that I rolled into intelligence and play the rare orc wizard. Now I can't do that, because orcs have no type to play against. Nor does any other race. The removal of stat penalties combined with the floating bonuses ensures that the ability to choose to play a racial type or choose to play against a racial type have permanently been taken away from me.

And you're turning your 18 into at 16 and nerfing yourself to do so. The game is actively punishing you for your choice.

Plus doing the whole icksome 'some races are smarter than others' thing I'd rather not touch with a million fool pole wrapped in plastic and covered in antiseptic.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Getting rid of stat penalties removes choices based on what I want, though. I used to be able to play against type by putting an 18 that I rolled into intelligence and play the rare orc wizard. Now I can't do that, because orcs have no type to play against. Nor does any other race. The removal of stat penalties combined with the floating bonuses ensures that the ability to choose to play a racial type or choose to play against a racial type have permanently been taken away from me.

I remember 3.5, which made it impossiblew to play against the type with that horible design you're defending. You needed to optimize to maximum to offset the penalties and curveballs the game threw at you in character creation to punish you for not doing "optimal choice", and you were always only mediocre and never as good as the "optimal choice", which always ended defeating entire point because your charater could never prove Orcs are as capable of being wizards as humans - you obiectively never could be as good wizard as a human.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Meh, we just keep the ASIs as they were meant to be, where some races are smarter, stronger, faster, etc. than others.

Hot take: Racial ASI are bad game design. Two races with ASI in the same stat are identical and less interesting because of it. if you cannot represent a race is better at something without slappinng a +2 to an ability score, that race is not ready to be playable.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Hot take: Racial ASI are bad game design. Two races with ASI in the same stat are identical and less interesting because of it. if you cannot represent a race is better at something without slappinng a +2 to an ability score, that race is not ready to be playable.

did anyone say species ASI were the only way species were being differentiated from each other?

 

[niklinna]

did anyone say species ASI were the only way species were being differentiated from each other?

...no?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

did anyone say species ASI were the only way species were being differentiated from each other?

Doesn't matter, having them at all undermines all other ways. If Orcs and Dwarves both get +2 STR, it makes them feel samey because it is such big factor it overshadows all oter features. Remove it and then the other abilities become what makes them more unique.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Doesn't matter, having them at all undermines all other ways. If Orcs and Dwarves both get +2 STR, it makes them feel samey because it is such big factor it overshadows all oter features. Remove it and then the other abilities become what makes them more unique.

if +2 STR is such an important factor that it overshadows any other features maybe the other features need to be stepped up a grade or three.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

if +2 STR is such an important factor that it overshadows any other features maybe the other features need to be stepped up a grade or three.

It overshadows other features because it directly affects the thing that determines how well your class features work, while every other ability just interacts or doesn';t interact with them. It is impossible to making other features as important because they fundamentally operate from a different layer.