Corrections to Monsters in the CC

[Cleon]

It's not so much a correction as a quibble, but I've just noticed the CC conversion of Gorgosaurus has "A gorgosaurus is a smaller, leaner relative of the famous tyrannosaurus, also known as the albertosaurus" as the first line of the background information. That could be interpreted as saying Tyrannosaurus has Albertosaurus as a synonym rather than Gorgo.

Would you object to me swapping the final sentence-fragment to the front, making it "Also known as albertosaurus, a gorgosaurus is a smaller, leaner relative of the famous tyrannosaurus"?

Incidentally, the only currently recognized species, Gorgosaurus libratus might actually be an Albertosaurus instead - the two genera are so alike paleontologists are divided on the issue whether to, well, keep them divided or combine them into one genus. Since old Albert's genus has precedence that'd make Gorgo Albertosaurus libratus.

The Gorgosaurus has had quite a few synonyms, since it was first discovered in the 19th century when paleontologists were a lot more enthusiastic about creating new families and genera.

 

[freyar]

For the Statue-That-Walks, I will agree to the revised Inspire Terror ability. And I think just adding this one with links to the crypt version and other 3.5 version in the note will work. CR 14 is good.

I might be ok with editing the Colossus like you suggest. Or preserving this version for archival purposes and having another edited version. What do you want to do?

Good catch on the "dinos"! I will go for all those changes.

 

[Cleon]

For the Statue-That-Walks, I will agree to the revised Inspire Terror ability. And I think just adding this one with links to the crypt version and other 3.5 version in the note will work. CR 14 is good.

Okay, I'll include it in the next CC update which'll likely be in a day or three.

I might be ok with editing the Colossus like you suggest. Or preserving this version for archival purposes and having another edited version. What do you want to do?

Just to make sure, we are talking about the "Spelljammer" colossus now? I'd be inclined to create a new version to add to the CC rather than editing the existing one, since there's likely to be some significant changes to it.

Good catch on the "dinos"! I will go for all those changes.

Ditto on the CC update.

 

[Cleon]

Okay, I'll include it in the next CC update which'll likely be in a day or three.

By "a day or three" I appear to have meant "today" since I've just updated the Enworld Resources version of the Creature Catalog (Download Version).

 

[Cleon]

Just noticed a bit of an omission in the CC's Afanc conversion.

The tactics says "The afanc likes to attack small ships with its whirlpool attack, or charge at small boats and rafts to capsize them" while the special attacks section tells me this monster has no capsize attack.

Have to dig out my copy of City of Delights and see what the beastie's original Combat description says. Might be worth considering it for a 3.5 update since we've only got a 3.0 conversion in the Catalog.

 

[Cleon]

The tactics says "The afanc likes to attack small ships with its whirlpool attack, or charge at small boats and rafts to capsize them" while the special attacks section tells me this monster has no capsize attack.

Come across a more significant problem. After thinking "You know, I really don't care for the official capsize rules" I started browsing the CC for alternative mechanisms like Oceanus's Create Waves ability or the Chont's Ramming when I noticed the following in the latter's special attack:

Ramming (Ex):
The break DC varies with the type of vessel rammed, as follows: rowboat DC 20, keelboat DC 23, sailing ship or longship DC 25, warship DC 27, or galley DC 30. (See Chapter 5 of the DMG for information about ships).

The problem? Ships and boats aren't even in the Dungeon Master's Guide, or at least not the 3.5 edition. during the 3.0 to 3.5 half-edition upgrade they were moved from the Expanded Equipment section of the 3.0 DMG's Chapter Five to Chapter Seven of the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

So should we change it to "See Chapter 7 of the PHB"?

I'm more inclined to either delete the bracketed "(See … ships)" sentence entirely or make it "(For information about ships see Transport in the Equipment section of the SRD.)"

Also, does it really need the brackets?

 

[Cleon]

Have to dig out my copy of City of Delights and see what the beastie's original Combat description says. Might be worth considering it for a 3.5 update since we've only got a 3.0 conversion in the Catalog.

Well for a complete service I checked out every AD&D version of the Afanc.

The original 1E Monster Manual II (1981) has "Of course, rafts, boats, and similar small craft (30 feet or less in length) are typically rushed, knocked so as to capsize, and the passengers consumed by the greedy beast."

The Al-Qadim boxed set City of Delights (1993) contains the Afanc's first 2E appearance as "Afanc (Gawwar Samakat)", and has "Seagoing vessels more than 60 feet long are generally unmolested, but they may be rammed by the creature. Boats and rafts less than 30 feet long are almost always rammed in an attempt to capsize them." followed by exception-based rules for ramming (the afanc makes an attack roll, 4+ capsizes the "AC 5" regular vessel, 6+ if it gains +2 "AC" by evading, the ship must ALSO make a save vs. crushing blow or sink in 1d10 rounds.

The Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume One (1994) has a slightly tweaked version of the Al-Qadim version, and makes no mention of that monster's Zakharan name of gawwar samakat. It has a Ramming attack that uses the same capsize & crushing blow mechanism as the City of Delights version.

So the original version could ram ships with a special attack that combines a "ship-flipping" capsize attack like a Dragon Turtle with a "hull-breaching" ramming attack like a Chont.

Looks like we've got a candidate for a 3.5 upgrade or a Cleon Special on our hands!

 

[freyar]

For the Chont, we should just refer to the SRD. We used to refer to the rulebooks more, but I lean toward pointing to the SRD these days. Feel free to drop parentheses if you like.

Well, eventually we should start doing 3.0 to 3.5 updates again! Let's start with the Afanc, why not? That'll let me think about how I'd want to approach how it attacks ships. Want to put the original and 3.0 versions in the update thread?

 

[Cleon]

For the Chont, we should just refer to the SRD. We used to refer to the rulebooks more, but I lean toward pointing to the SRD these days. Feel free to drop parentheses if you like.

I'm leaning slightly towards keeping the parentheses since they're in the original version and it feels right to keep text changes to the minimum when re-editing existing CC entries (it feels fairer to reserve that to new monsters or separate new versions of a monster).

Okay, I've changed my CC master copy of the Chont from "See Chapter 5 of the DMG for information about ships" to "See Equipment in the SRD for information about ships".

Did a quick search for the "See Chapter DMG" of the CC and got a couple of hits I'd better check to see if any need amending…

Well, eventually we should start doing 3.0 to 3.5 updates again! Let's start with the Afanc, why not? That'll let me think about how I'd want to approach how it attacks ships. Want to put the original and 3.0 versions in the update thread?

Sure.

Do you mind if we start doing a new version of the Spelljammer version of the Colossus as well?

 

[Cleon]

Okay, I've changed my CC master copy of the Chont from "See Chapter 5 of the DMG for information about ships" to "See Equipment in the SRD for information about ships".

Did a quick search for the "See Chapter DMG" of the CC and got a couple of hits I'd better check to see if any need amending…

Said search returned six hits, five of which (including the Chont) referred to the Ships section of the DMG that doesn't appear in 3.5. Four with a Ramming special attack (Balaena, Chont, Gammaroid, Vampire Squid) , plus one with a Crush Ship special attack (Super Eel).

The other hit was the 3.0 Zombie Lord Template which has a "see Disease, page 74 in the DMG" reference which I can't be bothered amending. That one doesn't have a 3.5 update yet and I'm not terribly bothered about it.

I've amended the five that ram/crush ships for the next update.