Could we please have a non evil/ammoral pact for Warlocks? :)

[GreatLemur]

Or what? Are you going to beat him up? Call the "emo" police on him? Are the "powers that be" going to think ill of him and strike him down? LOL.

I can't speak for mhacdebhandia, but I'm going to laugh at him. The frequent misapplication of the term "emo" by Internet people who don't know jack about the music scene is almost as obnoxious and sad as emo music itself.

 

[D_E]

I took a look at the Warlock section of Races and Classes the other day, and what they said about Star pacts made me wonder if we were all barking up the wrong tree about 'em. From what the essay said, it sounded more like a Star pact was a deal with the powers of Fate, rather than the Far Realm.

 

[Baduin]

A nominally good deity which seems rather dangerous:

http://www.khandro.net/deity_Mahakala.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahakala

And its avatar, Baron Robert Nickolaus Maximillian von Ungern-Sternberg

http://www.mongolia-web.com/content/view/1141/39/

He would seem to be suitably ambivalent to be a warlock.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Ruin Epxlorer,
The Keep was a superb film, up to near the end when they deviated from the book and it went wrong

Too many folk want warlocks so they can be "the creepy bad guy!", sorry but that doesn't float in my games. Way I see it is, you mess with the powers of Evil, they will 99.9% of the time own your silly ass Also, Evil is *NOT* "cool".

I don't like the entire idea of "Pacts" per se...ok so this evil being gives you this power...why? why not use it for himself? Do wizards, clerics or anyone else have to make "Pacts"?. I think the eldritch blast, raw magical power of the warlock should be innate, and they learn other abilities from dealings with powerful creatures/forces who're attracted to such, so rather than "Pact" as it's described, it's more a symbiotic relationship.
"You kill X and Y" for me, I let you know how to do the Curse of Doom." etc.

Many cultures/myths have "good" deities/powers who are dangerous and down right nasty to their enemies: Soddom and Gomorrah is the most well known such in the Christian world

Having warlocks as basically evil characters is going to have a lot of DMs not want them, period. Having them as dangerous, mysterious, haunted, wrestling with their pwoers/fate/benefactor etc, is fine.

otherwise I KNOW munchkin twerps are gonna want to play the "sexy angst ridden evil warlock" in my and other folks' games, and cause trouble, so I'm going to have to tell them to get stuffed

[sblock="Neverwinter night 2 spoiler, warlock character"]
Cool warlock character: Ammon Jerro in Neverwinter Nights2. very well done as a character, but he's an ammoral murderer who's sold out everything for one cause. That really crosses the line from being hero, to villain.
I like such folk as NPCs, whom the PCs can ally with if they wish at times, but definately not as PCs.

[/sblock]


Other interesting warlock pacts/symbiosis:
-Vlaakith the Lich Queen of the Githyanki, aiding the Gith' vs the illithids.
-Good aligned titan, who (in 4th ed) gives elemental powers to defeat some foe.
-Gold Dragon or Bahumat who gives powers of fire and magic to fight Tiamat.

etc

 

[Rechan]

New concept for an evil character:

"I betrayed the power of good, to serve my own needs. Now I'm killing Paladins with blasts of radiant light and use my angelic charm to seduce virgins "

Except couldn't the powers of Good that gave your powers just take them away?

 

[Walking Dad]

...

Too many folk want warlocks so they can be "the creepy bad guy!", sorry but that doesn't float in my games. Way I see it is, you mess with the powers of Evil, they will 99.9% of the time own your silly ass Also, Evil is *NOT* "cool".

...

WotC marketing guys seem to think it is

I also like Faust (DC Comics), Ghostrider, Spawn, the Darkness, ...

 

[Oligopsony]

Except couldn't the powers of Good that gave your powers just take them away?

No more than the powers of Evil.

I mean, they could try to take you down, obviously, or send wise men after you, warning you to repent. Which are all fodder for interesting scenes.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I don't know, using a built in ability named Soul Ruin doesn't seem like something a good person would use on another.

What if the other person deserved it? What if it was a demon/devil soul?

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Walking Dad,
I like playing D&D as heroic fantasy, good guys, even if they are often cranky, violent, boozing, frequenters of cathouses
(Being Scots, I tend to have an empathy for grumpy dwarves and wizards, lol!)

Evil is just not cool, seen enough of it in RL to sicken me for several life times :/
I play D&D to get away from RL's ickiness.

I loved the "Homeland" trilogy by Salvatore, extremely well written/engrossing story of the drow's culture, but, in the end they're still repellent, treacherous SOBs.
It would require a good group of gamers to play such a campaign setting (Menzoberranzan) and NOT having it degnerate into nasty acrimony!

Honeslty, how often do you get a player who can run an evil character, and NOT have it ruin play, hm? yes, the do exist, but they ain't common, IMHO.

Warlocks as agents of the fey, elemental, wild powers is great....or characters cursed to have peculiar, deadly abilities that set them apart from the norm, that even they or anyone else may never understand....or to have their fates inexorably bound with some dangerous, destructive entity, beneficial, malign or uncaring, because of some ancient law, cosmic accident or other unexpected fate...those are cool.

But to have it basically be: Warlock = deliberately choses to be evil...meh

Now, if a tiefling found they had warlock powers due to his heritage, ok, fine. he can't help this, it's a "dark fate he's bound to". Cool, good story.

But then you should also have "dragon born warlock, who's powers come from Bahmut's fury, for ever brimming up in anger at Tiamat's treachery".
Just because Bamhut is Lawful Good, doesn't mean he isn't seriously PO'd at Tiamat, and willing to annihilate her and her minions...being good though, he wouldn't slaughter innocents, but evil doers deserve to be slaughtered, they made a choice...a bad one...so in steps his agent, the warlock dragonborn, and dispenses some serious smack down.

Hm?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Many cultures/myths have "good" deities/powers who are dangerous and down right nasty to their enemies: Soddom and Gomorrah is the most well known such in the Christian world

Dude don't make me get into how the Old Testament god does not fit even the most out-there D&D-based definition of "Good". In no way is "Yaweh" a "Good" outsider. He's LN on a good day, LE on a bad day. I say that as someone with Christian roots and great respect for the Bible, but the Old Testament is full of CRAZY EVIL.

otherwise I KNOW munchkin twerps are gonna want to play the "sexy angst ridden evil warlock" in my and other folks' games, and cause trouble, so I'm going to have to tell them to get stuffed

As long as evil pacts are even an option this will be a problem. Good pacts don't help you at all there.[/QUOTE]

Also, whilst actually BEING Evil may or may not be cool, FLIRTING with Evil is most certainly cool. In fact, it's pretty much the essence of "bad boy" cool (which is itself traditionally regarded as the pinnacle of cool ever since cool has been a word!). If you can't face that fact, you're completely out of touch with reality.