Countdown to the Realms: Magic in the Forgotten Realms

[The Little Raven]

So Wizards spent money researching which areas of the Realms people played in?

Not publicly available. However in light of comments about user feedback, and the fact that a company wouldn't be changing what the majority of their audience liked (because that's just silly), it's the only reason those things would change since the "change for the sake of change" argument lacks any kind of evidence or support or logic.

It's like when Planescape fans argued there was no reason that PS should have been cancelled, and Ryan Dancey noted that their market research said something quite different.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Eh that part doesn't say anything to me but played out. Heck isn't floating rock even in eberon.

Nope - it's in World of Warcraft, though. The Nagrand and Netherstorm zones in Outland have several floating rock islands.

 

[Spatula]

Not publicly available. However in light of comments about user feedback, and the fact that a company wouldn't be changing what the majority of their audience liked (because that's just silly), it's the only reason those things would change since the "change for the sake of change" argument lacks any kind of evidence or support or logic.

So you have no idea whether such research actually exists.

Note: I'm not disputing that wizards conducts market research, I'm asking about specifically researching which areas of the Realms are used by players.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Random personal musings below which don't add much to the discussion but describe how I'm feeling in a nutshell. Not really helpful to anyone but me in sorting out things in my own head. Perhaps it's best just to skip past my post if you want to ignore the ramblings of one insignificant person. Anyways...

Every new article makes it harder and harder to keep an open mind about the 4E Realms. I keep saying I'm undecided and open-minded about the changes, but also skeptical at the same time considering the hamfisted ways it's taken place and being described. The fact that posters are doing a better job explaining events than articles and hints gives me pause. Perhaps the skeptic in me is starting to overwhelm my open-mindness. I hope that isn't so. Because there has been some good added, in that the warlock explantion is spot on.

It's funny. I like, play, DM, and read Eberron. I like, play, DM, and read the Realms. So why does the addition of Mournlands in the Realms strike me as unnecessary and shoehorned? Like a bad copy paste job that characterized the worst parts of the Realms in 2.0, IMO. I suppose this also helps explain why I feel nothing for the loss of Maztica, but winced when everything in Halruua blew up.

Regarding the Unther/Mulholarand/Chessenta development. Why invest so much time into telling a story in 3e only to wash it all away in 4e? An unfinished story at that. It just seems so...wasteful. Or maybe it's because I was interested in the storyline and now see no official payoff, so to speak. Or, more to the point, only a weak one, like, "Lol, they're all gone. Look at the NEW stuff."

Fear of change could play a part in my feelings, I suppose, but I also like just about all of what they've put out for 4.0 mechanically. It makes sense. It's just the fluff that bothers me.

Sigh. August is still 6 months away. Perhaps things will be clearer by then. I truly would regret turning away from the Realms as my printed setting of choice after all these years I spent collecting it. I can understand why some are having such a strong reaction. I'll just hope things are explained in the Core rulebook. If not, at leat they said Eberron wasn't changing much.

 

[The Little Raven]

Concerning the Spellplague... Bold is straight from Ed Greenwood. Italics and normal is George Krashos. Originally posted at Candlekeep. (lightly edited for spacing.

Well here's the low down on the "spellplague" before it even was the "spellplague" from Ed himself. Given that the 100 year jump and the Abeir returning thingies are now in the public domain, this post isn't spoiling anything and I thought that the wider forum community might appreciate the insight.

There are actually THREE references, all of which will really only be understandable "after the fact." One of them is the "Smashed the black star" curiosity that several scribes have been so fascinated by, and another is a CYCLOPEDIA heading (yes, just the heading). [Ed was referring to the "Abeir-Toril" heading]

The third, "main" reference is on page 40 of the DM'S SOURCEBOOK, referring to Mellomir's claim of finding an "ancient" and "magical" treasure in the vicinity of the Haunted Halls. The dwarves vanishing over the years were fleeing the Realms through gates (portals, linking to other worlds / alternate Prime Material Planes) that are not in the Haunted Halls, but can be reached through the Halls (I think the maps I gave you at GenCon included the "Whisper's Crypt" level, yes?). The dwarves were departing to avoid the coming Spellplague, and the monsters and adventurers vanishing into and emerging from the Halls were also using the gates.

The original text of this entry had Mellomir referring to an unspecified "message of fire."

The original turnover of FR1 THE HAUNTED HALLS OF EVENINGSTAR included a magical "message" formed by flames dancing in midair that briefly appeared to anyone entering the many-pillared room of Encounter 31, that said this: "A great storm of magic is coming, that will twist or maim many. Beware the Black Star." It was edited out because the TSR designers of the day thought it too substantial to print without providing something of an explanation (that there was no wordcount left in the module to provide, and that would open a can of worms they wanted to avoid). This same message appears in front of the gates used the dwarves, monsters, and adventurers, whenever they are approached from the "Realms" side.

So there you have it. Too mangled and chopped-down for anyone studying the Old Grey Box to recognize without this explanation. Sorry. I DID warn everyone it would be nigh-impossible to spot, beforehand.

By the way, there's something else in FR0 tied to this: Sabirine's Specular. A Spell Engine provides a tiny "shelter" from Spellplague effects around itself, and Sabirine chose to die rather than embrace lichdom because she didn't want to endure years of undeath only to be swept away in the Spellplague, or twisted and maimed and left in a world ravaged by the Spellplague.

The Spellplague term isn't mine (I called it "the Doom," or "the Coming of the Black Star" or "THE Spellstorm"), and I always intended this to be a mythical always-in-the-future bogey-tale.

There you have it.

-- George Krashos

 

[Nymrohd]

@Mr. Wilson

You are absolutely right in my book. In essence they are facing a big dilemma. They have so many changes (whether they are good or bad is not what I am debating) and they want to preview them all. On a less detailed world, a fast article like those we have gotten so far, would probably be enough to descibe said changes. But on the Realms, with their staggering level of detail, they can sound positively moronic.

They could skip some of the changes and post articles that detailed well (not even exhaustively, not possible in an article) each change that happened in the Realms. And if it was well written, or if the writter was not Richard Baker (He who must be stopped, it seems) but Ed Greenwood, or George Krashos, or Steven Schend (just some names), there would be little outcry and many loregasms. I mean I personally dislike Greenwood's novel writing, but when the man spins some fluff on a random location, he can make it come to life.

Will we get that level of detail on why the changes happend on the FRCS? I am not sure and frankly I don't think so. I would very much love a book like Eberron's Forge of War (I loved that book made my love Cyre even more) that detailed what happened during the Spellplague. Or a couple of well-written novels on that timeframe.

 

[Sitara]

Lol, I'm still tickled by the fact that you can actually bottle this spellplague stuff and carry it around with you.

 

[vagabundo]

I've been playing FR for years and actually do like these changes. It's more like the Gray Box and less like the "20 lbs of poop in a 10lbs bag" philosophy of 2nd and 3rd edition. The setting was starting to collapse under the weight of all that meta stuff, and geographically there were no open spaces, no mystery, very few frontiers left.

I'm honestly shocked that so many of the things that came out around 2nd edition seem to have become sacred cows.

Ive only started gaming in the realms late in 3e(before 3.5e). Of course I new a little of it and had read some of the novels and had some 2e products. Even in 2e it seemed had for me to get my head around, the amount of stuff in it seemed unreal. It was hard to know where to start, where to focus.

I believe the new edition will be much more focused and that is a good thing, it will probably use everything in the PHB and build on it and that is a good thing too.

My players have only wandered around some of the dales/moonsea and the vast for the past 3 years. I'm planning on moving them east now.

One of the products that I really though was very cool was all about different Priests (2e) of the realms, each one was a kit or class I think. And each one had cool powers and it made them different from all the other, I'd like to see something like that again as religon seems to play such a big part ion the realms.

 

[The Little Raven]

Lol, I'm still tickled by the fact that you can actually bottle this spellplague stuff and carry it around with you.

Why? You can bottle up Black Death and carry it with you. The Spellplague spreads like other plagues (with multiple vectors, it appears), has some people who are resistant and immune, and others who suffer the full effects. It's a magical plague, so why wouldn't it act like a plague?

 

[Sitara]

Why? You can bottle up Black Death and carry it with you. The Spellplague spreads like other plagues (with multiple vectors, it appears), has some people who are resistant and immune, and others who suffer the full effects. It's a magical plague, so why wouldn't it act like a plague?

Umm, the spellplague is shimmery, glowy type stuff that eats through all it touches and blows things up by contact. It also mutates some things it touches. Among other things. And you can bottle it up and carry it around. Maybe to toss around as a weapon, to light dark places, etc.

I dunno, I just find it cheesy, funny and ludicrous at the same time.

Can't wait to see what other wonderful revelations are in store for us. (the entire continenet being teeleported away and being replaced by a continent from another planet in its place was a particularly good one. As was the spellscarred thingy, y'know theone which turns its recipients into dragonballZ masters. Complete with glowing hair.)