D&D 5E CR for NPCs

[Chriscdoa]

Is it stated anywhere what level of character equates to what CR?

in PF your CR is one level lower...but HD seem much higher in 5e

 

[GX.Sigma]

There's no easy answer to that. A Wizard (cast highest level spell in round 1, die before round 2) would have a higher CR than a Fighter (make a basic weapon attack in round 1, die before round 2).

 

[fanboy2000]

Is it stated anywhere what level of character equates to what CR?

in PF your CR is one level lower...but HD seem much higher in 5e

If I understand your question, then the answer is not yet. Right now, stating out an NPC or monster with PHB rules seems inadvisable.

I suspect the DMG with have some guidance on NPC creation, including what kind of challenge a fully stated out NPC using PHB rules is. Alternatively, they continue 4e's tradition of not using PHB chargen to make NPCs. The 5e MM (and the Basic Rules) have section of NPCs with the expectation that you'll customize them to fit by adding racial traits, or swapping out weapons/spells.

 

[Remathilis]

Is it stated anywhere what level of character equates to what CR?

in PF your CR is one level lower...but HD seem much higher in 5e

Well, based on the NPCS we have so far, there doesn't appear to be a "formula" per se. Its probably based on AC/HP/Damage output like a monster.

That said, I looked at the stats and kinda came up with a rough pattern.

WARRIORS: Classes that primarily fight and have no other special abilities roughly appear to have a CR equal to 1/3 their HD. This doesn't align perfectly though. My suggestion is to compare it to humanoid monsters in the Basic Doc/MM once you have the NPCs HP, AC, and attacks done.

CASTERS: Casters appear to have a CR equal to Caster level -3. Their HD is usually equal to caster level, to a minimum of 2.

SNEAKS: Sneak-attackers have no pattern I can find. Spies are level 4 rogues with 6 HD but CR 1., while assassins are CR 8, roughly equal to a rogue 8, but have 12 HD.

I'm sure the DMG will have more, but that might be a tactic to use for now.

 

[Remathilis]

My data

NPC	“Class”	Level	Class Ability Level	Hit Dice	CR
Berserker	Barbarian		-	9d8	2
Acolyte	Cleric	1	1st level Caster	2d8	1/4
Priest	Cleric	5	5th level Caster	5d8	2
Bandit	Fighter		-	2d8	1/8
Cultist	Fighter		-	2d8	1/8
Guard	Fighter		-	2d8	1/8
Noble	Fighter		-	2d8	1/8
Scout	Fighter		-	3d8	1/2
Thug	Fighter		-	5d8	1/2
Knight	Fighter		-	8d8	3
Veteran	Fighter		-	9d8	3
Assassin	Rogue	8	SA 4d6	12d8	8
Spy	Rogue	4	SA 2d6	6d8	1
Mage	Wizard	9	9th level Caster	9d8	6

 

[Savage Wombat]

I've got no problem with Remathilis' rules of thumb, but I'm pretty sure that you find the CR of, say, a Warlock NPC this way:

1) Decide what level the warlock needs to be (let's say 9th)
2) Write up a 9th level warlock
3) Look up the warlock on the monster table based on how many HP it has

 

[Chocolategravy]

Pathfinder is based on 3E which used the same rules for monsters, NPCs and PC. 5E doesn't do that. The HP, AC and damage are all just assigned and balanced against each other rather than being generated from PC rules.

 

[fanboy2000]

Pathfinder is based on 3E which used the same rules for monsters, NPCs and PC. 5E doesn't do that. The HP, AC and damage are all just assigned and balanced against each other rather than being generated from PC rules.

That's not quite true. AC is often derived from armor. Though you can just assign an AC value and call it "natural armor" if you want. Example: Lizardfolk. (This was true in 3e too, at least if you were creating a whole new creature.)

Damage, per attack, is derived from the spell use or the weapon used. However, you can give a monster/NPC something like multiattack or bonus damage on surprise. For monsters with natural attacks, you can probably just assign a number.

HP is nominally a function of HD. The size of somethings HD is determined by size, but we're not quite sure how the number is determined. We should know when the DMG comes out, either because it will tell us or because we'll have figured it out from the MM that's coming out in 10 days. (Well, it's coming out for me in 10 days.)

 

[Remathilis]

I've got no problem with Remathilis' rules of thumb, but I'm pretty sure that you find the CR of, say, a Warlock NPC this way:

1) Decide what level the warlock needs to be (let's say 9th)
2) Write up a 9th level warlock
3) Look up the warlock on the monster table based on how many HP it has

I'm 99% certain you're right. My rule of thumb is mostly for "gee, I need a CR 3 caster. I should start with a 6th level warlock".

Basically, its a starting point, not an endpoint.

 

[Ragwaine]

It seems that a character of any level would be equal to a character of any other class of the same level. If that weren't true then it would mean the classes aren't balanced (which is definitely possible but not what the designers are trying for). Working from that it would seem that a party of 4 1st lvl npc's would be equal to a party of 4 1st lvl PC's. But I'm not sure if that means they are a "Moderate", "Hard", or "Deadly" difficulty.

The acolyte looks like a 2nd level cleric, he's only missing the extra domain spells and the Wis/Cha saves. They gave him a CR1/4 (50xp). 4 acolytes would be 400 xp (because of the x2 modifier for being 4 of them). That's a "Deadly" encounter for 3rd level characters. I would think if you're evenly matched it would be a deadly encounter because you have the same chance of dying as your opponent.

In the end it doesn't seem to make much sense. They're saying that 4 3rd level characters fighting 4 2nd level characters is a deadly encounter when it seems pretty obvious that the 3rd level characters should win the battle (barring bad luck with dice).

I'm using the basic DMG download but I'm assuming that the numbers didn't change in the full DMG.