CR of a permanently polymorphed dragon

[IcyCool]

Ok, so I think I've got it (please correct me if you see a mistake):

Old Red Dragon

Gargantuan Dragon (Fire)

Hit Dice: 28d12 + 196 (378 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)
Armor Class: 33 (-4 size, +27 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 33
BAB/Grapple: +28/+52
Attack: Bite +40 melee (4d6+12/20x2)
Full Attack: 1 bite +40 melee (4d6+12/20x2), 2 claws +35 melee (2d8+6/20x2), 2 wings +35 melee (2d6+6/20x2), 1 tail slap +35 melee (2d8+18/20x2)
Space/Reach: 20ft./15ft. (20ft. with bite)
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon(Su) 60ft. cone (16d10), Crush(Ex) (4d6+18), Tail Sweep(Ex) (2d6+18), Spells.
Special Qualities: Immunity to fire, Immune to sleep and paralysis effects, DR 10/magic, Keen Senses(Ex), Blindsense(Ex) 60ft., Frightful Presence(Ex) (DC 29), Spell Resistance 24, Spell-like abilities (8/day-locate object, 3/day-suggestion).
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +16, Will +21
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 10, Con 25, Int 20, Wis 21, Cha 20
Skills:
Feats: 11 feats


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Old Red Dragon (Polymorphed into Human)

Medium Humanoid (Human)

Hit Dice: 1 HD for various rules purposes (182 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10
BAB/Grapple: +28/+28
Attack: Club +28 melee (1d6/20x2)
Full Attack: Club +28/+23/+18/+13 (1d6/20x2)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon(Su) 60ft. cone (16d10), Spells.
Special Qualities: DR 10/magic, Spell-like abilities (8/day-locate object, 3/day-suggestion).
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +16, Will +21
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 20, Wis 21, Cha 20
Skills:
Feats: 11 feats

As per polymorph and alter self, the following happens:

1. Type and Subtype change to that of the new form (change to Humanoid type and Human subtype)
2. You gain the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retain your own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores (change to base 10s for Str, Dex, and Con (I assume))
3. Your class and level, hit points (modified for the new Con), alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same
4. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack) (So you keep the Breath Weapon, DR, and the two Spell-like abilities)
5. You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels. (In this case, none of the Ex abilities are derived from class, so we lose them all)
6. You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind (so we lose the natural armor, darkvision, etc.)

Does that look right?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Dragon disciples are half-dragons. They get wings, a tail, etc. by the time they're done.

But not at the point in time when they are breathing fire (acid, whatever).

3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Breath weapon (2d8) 0
...
10th +7 +7 +3 +7 Blindsense 60 ft., dragon apotheosis 0

 

[IcyCool]

Dragon disciples are half-dragons. They get wings, a tail, etc. by the time they're done.

They don't get a tail. I would have definitely noticed a tail.

 

[moritheil]

But not at the point in time when they are breathing fire (acid, whatever).

They are not mechanistically considered to be half-dragons. In that you are correct; they are only on the path there.

 

[moritheil]

They don't get a tail. I would have definitely noticed a tail.

Bah, I must be thinking of the epic version or something.

 

[Chorn]

All PC races are templates. Otherwise you could shapeshift into a lvl15 PC with 18 on all stats.

You're way off saying that you can't shapeshift into a high level human paladin with 18 on all stats. Races are NOT templates. I don't even know where you managed to get that idea. Polymorph and its ilk just change you or the target into another type of creature. The only control you would have on stats would come from the type of creature chosen. Since it changes you into an average member of the species this translates to 10's and 11's for the physical stats modified by racial adjustments. Mental scores remain your own barring some odd exceptions.

[Dragon disciples] are not mechanistically considered to be half-dragons. In that you are correct; they are only on the path there.

They're quite odd in that respect. A fully advanced dragon disciple mostly ends up a half-dragon as the template. Mostly, but not fully. Ignoring the extra stuff such as the bonus spells, the dragon disciple has slight differences such as a slower flight speed.

Tangential note, anyone remember how prestige class abilities function when you lose a prerequisite? I'm not talking about the dragon disciple's final level breaking the class. Rather I was wondering if you could do a half-dragon double dip by having a 9th level dragon disciple, therefore pre-apotheosis and still non-dragon, somehow acquire the half-dragon template such as through a ritual or the like. That way you'd get the ability and natural armor bonuses twice.

 

[Rkhet]

Oh? Then I could use Shapechange to become a lvl25 character of any kind?

 

[Crothian]

Oh? Then I could use Shapechange to become a lvl25 character of any kind?

no, you shapechange it to creatures not classes and levels

 

[moritheil]

Oh? Then I could use Shapechange to become a lvl25 character of any kind?

You could be a newt, but you would get better.

 

[IcyCool]

So, do the stat blocks I posted above look about right?

Edit: moritheil, Dragon Disciples don't get a tail at epic levels either.