Craft overlapping?

[Water Bob]

How much skill overlap do you allow in your game? What do you think is intended by the rules, RAW?

For example, if a character needs to repair armor, can the Craft (Weaponsmith) skill be used instead, maybe at a higher DC, in place of Craft (Armorsmith)?

If you wanted to attach spikes to a shield or metal claws to a gauntlet, can either skill be used? What about creating a shield with spikes or a gauntlet with metal claws from scratch?

I ask, because I sometimes see this type of thing in official materials. For example, the Conan Core rulebook states that armor can be repaired with a DC 10 Craft (Armorsmith) check or a DC 15 Craft (Blacksmith) check. Well....what if you've got Craft (Weaponsmith)? Can that be used, maybe at a DC 20?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I've never heard of it working that way, but I'd not have a problem with a DM that added a 5 to the DC of repairing armor by using a Craft (Weaponsmith) skill. With that said, I don't think it's RAW to do so in any system I know.

Perhaps develop a Craft related feat based off what the Versatile Performer feat does for the perform skill. Pick a number of craft skills based upon your INT mod, count your ranks in your highest Craft skill to apply to all of those other craft skills. I've always thought Versatile Performer could be abused in the hands of a well built Bard, but the precedent is there.

 

[irdeggman]

Conan appears to have a much more specialized set of rules. In RAW D&D you can't use a different craft skill.

But, you can use craft untrained. The crafter can take 10 on his checks, but can't take 20 (because each time you miss by 5 or more you ruin some of the material, also it would take a very, very long time to do this - 20 days or 20 weeks per check). Taking 10 requires no extra time.

Note also that armor spikes requires craft (weaponsmithing) while making the base armor requires craft (armorsmithing).

You also need artisan's tools or suffer a -2 penalty.

 

[jefgorbach]

I have no problem substituting similar skills to achieve a desired end since WOTC often shows instances of doing likewise, such as using either Bluff or Diplomacy to convince the guard to let you pass.

A blacksmith uses the "same" process to craft/repair armor, metal weapons, horseshoes, etc so there should be no problem with using craft(armor), craft(weapon), or even profession(blacksmith) to repair an existing armor/weapon; especially since you're using the existing finished product to guide its restoration. Creating a brand-new unit from scratch is obviously more error-prone since you lack that guidance, so should incur a minor penalty. Although I dont see it in the SRD and forget offhand where I saw it, I -think- RAW suggests +5dc for each missing prerequisite skill/feat/etc.

 

[Grogg of the North]

I've always felt that certain skills may overlap to some degree. So even if the rules call for Skill A, I may allow Skill B, C, or even D to be used instead. Super secret GM modifiers apply.

 

[Jack Simth]

How much skill overlap do you allow in your game? What do you think is intended by the rules, RAW?

For example, if a character needs to repair armor, can the Craft (Weaponsmith) skill be used instead, maybe at a higher DC, in place of Craft (Armorsmith)?

If you wanted to attach spikes to a shield or metal claws to a gauntlet, can either skill be used? What about creating a shield with spikes or a gauntlet with metal claws from scratch?

I ask, because I sometimes see this type of thing in official materials. For example, the Conan Core rulebook states that armor can be repaired with a DC 10 Craft (Armorsmith) check or a DC 15 Craft (Blacksmith) check. Well....what if you've got Craft (Weaponsmith)? Can that be used, maybe at a DC 20?

The Craft skills are poorly defined; that said, you do need the right craft skill by RAW (although as mentioned, Craft is usable untrained).

However, you can still get some overlap! Few DM's would prevent someone with Craft(Leatherworking) from repairing leather armor, for instance.

 

[Sekhmet]

The Craft skills are poorly defined; that said, you do need the right craft skill by RAW (although as mentioned, Craft is usable untrained).

However, you can still get some overlap! Few DM's would prevent someone with Craft(Leatherworking) from repairing leather armor, for instance.

Most wouldn't allow an Armor Smith to make Leather Armor, anyway.

 

[Water Bob]

Most wouldn't allow an Armor Smith to make Leather Armor, anyway.

Most? Really?

I see the point, but skill points are relatively rare. As a valuable resource, I tend to allow broad definitions of skills with any reasonable overlap.

Would you allow a weaponsmith to make a bow? Or, would that be the realm of Craft (Bowyer)?

And, what about arrows? Craft (Weaponsmith) won't do? It must be Craft (Fletcher)?

Just curious on how other GMs view this.

 

[Sekhmet]

Most? Really?

I see the point, but skill points are relatively rare. As a valuable resource, I tend to allow broad definitions of skills with any reasonable overlap.

Would you allow a weaponsmith to make a bow? Or, would that be the realm of Craft (Bowyer)?

And, what about arrows? Craft (Weaponsmith) won't do? It must be Craft (Fletcher)?

Just curious on how other GMs view this.

Most of the DMs I've played with are very strictly in the "RP" area of D&D. If your character is a Weapon Smith, he doesn't automatically get to make every weapon in the game (bows, whips, swords, axes, harpoons, ballistae, nets, etc), he'll specialize in a general sort of way. He'll be a traditional weapon smith, who makes swords and axes and picks and whatnot, but he won't be a Bowyer, a Siege Engineer, or a Blacksmith.

Skill points are rare to prevent people from having everything under the sun, but remember that just eight points is usually enough when you can stack on circumstantial modifiers.

Even a level 1 with just 4 ranks in it and a +1 from Int can take a 10 and make almost everything in the book (in terms of weapons and armor). A Dwarf (with their +2) can take a 10 and make Masterwork.
By level 5, you can easily grab a +16 to your check (+8 ranks, +4 int, +2 tools, +2 assistant), more than enough to take a 10 and pump out items at triple speed. Throw in Skill Focus and be a Dwarf (+22)...

You get the point. Skills spent in Craft never need to be very high.

 

[Water Bob]

Even a level 1 with just 4 ranks in it and a +1 from Int can take a 10 and make almost everything in the book (in terms of weapons and armor). A Dwarf (with their +2) can take a 10 and make Masterwork.
By level 5, you can easily grab a +16 to your check (+8 ranks, +4 int, +2 tools, +2 assistant), more than enough to take a 10 and pump out items at triple speed. Throw in Skill Focus and be a Dwarf (+22)...

You get the point. Skills spent in Craft never need to be very high.

Since most NPCs in the game never get above 2nd level, the low level mastery makes sense.