Craft overlapping?

Since most NPCs in the game never get above 2nd level, the low level mastery makes sense.

It just shows that one PC can spread his "Craft" skill points around a bit more than most people seem to believe. That 10th level character could have three or four different crafts at a high enough level to be perfectly usable, or one that is so much higher than every DC available that it is almost pointlessly high (unless you really need to crank out Masterwork gear every day).
 

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As far as Craft skills overlapping, I believe it was the Book of Vile Darkness that allows a character to craft poisons using Craft (Alchemy) at a -4 penalty. I don't see why similar craft skills shouldn't have some sort of overlap such as weapon or armor smithing.

Went to double check I had the right source: Book of Vile Darkness, p. 45
 
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As far as Craft skills overlapping, I believe it was the Book of Vile Darkness that allows a character to craft poisons using Craft (Alchemy) at a -4 penalty. I don't see why similar craft skills shouldn't have some sort of overlap such as weapon or armor smithing.

Went to double check I had the right source: Book of Vile Darkness, p. 45

And you still have to be a spellcaster in order to craft anything with craft (alchemy) (PHB pg 71 - in the text section).

But I agree that the craft skill (and profession ones too) require DM oversight and interpretation along with a lot of situational/conditional modifiers.

For example I allow using Int as the ability modifier vor gather information if the character is using libraries and such as his source of information and not personal interaction. But using different abilities is already spelled out in the RAW.
 

Similar materials use similar skills and some items require parts crafted by more than one person. A carpenter can make a bow, a blacksmith cannot. A leatherworker can sew rings on leather to make ringmail, but cannot craft the iron rings. A weaponsmith can make anything made mostly out of metal, but may need a supply of wooden parts crafted by someone with the right skills. Quality is another issue. So a blacksmith and a leather worker can make a suit of ringmail without the help of an armourer, but may put rings in places that make it hard to move or miss a vital spot that needs extra padding because neither one is trained in making armour. Even if they pass all the necessary skill checks, the work will not be as good as the trained armourer could produce.
 

Crafting Questions



Question 1. I assume the handle of a hatchet is part of the raw materials needed when a weaponsmith crafts the hatchet's head. The handle he buys from....the Craft (carpenter), I suppose?

Likewise, the fletcher buys arrow heads from the weaponsmith, which are included in the cost of raw materials when making arrows.

Can a weaponsmith make a hatchet without access to a carpenter (i.e., the weaponsmith makes the handle himself)?

Can a fletcher make arrows all by himself without access to a market where he can buy arrow heads?

Can a bowyer also make arrows?





Question 2. Can a weaponsmith make a club or a quarterstaff? Or, is this the realm of the carpenter?





Question 3. How do you figure the time it takes to craft a club or a quarterstaff when the items are listed with no cost?
 

[MENTION=92305]Water Bob[/MENTION] The club and quarterstaff have no cost, because anyone can craft one by picking up a heavy piece of wood and attaching some sort of leather or cloth to the handle to make it usable in combat.
It doesn't really take special training of any kind, and takes less than ten minutes.

Such pieces of wood aren't the masterwork, decorative shillelaghs of Irish culture, or the studded Konobo from Japan, but they're as effective as any cudgel or baton in dealing damage.
 

Crafting Questions



Question 1. I assume the handle of a hatchet is part of the raw materials needed when a weaponsmith crafts the hatchet's head. The handle he buys from....the Craft (carpenter), I suppose?

Likewise, the fletcher buys arrow heads from the weaponsmith, which are included in the cost of raw materials when making arrows.

Can a weaponsmith make a hatchet without access to a carpenter (i.e., the weaponsmith makes the handle himself)?

Can a fletcher make arrows all by himself without access to a market where he can buy arrow heads?

Can a bowyer also make arrows?





Question 2. Can a weaponsmith make a club or a quarterstaff? Or, is this the realm of the carpenter?





Question 3. How do you figure the time it takes to craft a club or a quarterstaff when the items are listed with no cost?

Alright... Let us run down the list.

A hatchet handle is a pretty simple piece of work for a basic hatchet, and a Blacksmith probably has some ranks in Carpentry just due to... accidents that can occur when you bring molten metal into contact with wood ;).

Bowyer/Fletcher used to be the 2e NWP for such things... Honestly I think a bowyer who cannot make arrows is just silly. Its akin to a Doctor who cannot lance a boil... Yes, technically it is a 'surgery', but they're on it! :D.
Arrowheads, if not available, may be replaced by fire-hardened points. They may be of poorer quality (-1 damage) but should come at 3/4 their normal price.

A weaponsmith who cannot make a Club or Quarterstaff is horrid. Most smiths are going to train their apprentices to do the busy work, which includes our handles that we were discussing. Whittling was a common pasttime among craftsmen for simple boredom and the ability to 'mock up' a new device, practice on a material that was cheaper to replace than a masterful forged blade that is being fancified :).

Also, Clubs are pretty much the simplest thing to make. Find wood, whittle, hit people.

MACE-Spiked.jpg


Look at this spiked club/mace. Now ignore the spikes. Notice how it is essentially a whittled-down, debarked branch?

Yes. That easy :).

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

Crafting Questions
Question 1. I assume the handle of a hatchet is part of the raw materials needed when a weaponsmith crafts the hatchet's head. The handle he buys from....the Craft (carpenter), I suppose?
Likewise, the fletcher buys arrow heads from the weaponsmith, which are included in the cost of raw materials when making arrows.
Can a weaponsmith make a hatchet without access to a carpenter (i.e., the weaponsmith makes the handle himself)?
Can a fletcher make arrows all by himself without access to a market where he can buy arrow heads?
Can a bowyer also make arrows?

Question 2. Can a weaponsmith make a club or a quarterstaff? Or, is this the realm of the carpenter?

Question 3. How do you figure the time it takes to craft a club or a quarterstaff when the items are listed with no cost?


IMO;
1. Why not? You don't need metal arrow heads, you can craft an arrowhead from stone or even just sharpen the shaft to a point, range and accuracy may suffer, but it is doable - so a fletcher should be able to make an entire arrow himself. Even still, an arrowhead is a very simple mold to make so even metal arrowhead shouldn't be hard to produce. Sharpening them takes longer than actually making them.
Same for the hatchet, a crude handle is easy to produce and wedge into place.
I have something similar in my hiking kit, a chain length of saw blades that you just break some wood to put through the metal loop ends for handles (you could just use your fingers in the metal loops, but this makes them sore after a lot of cutting).

2. A club is something as simple picking up a good heavy stick and beating people with it. Quarterstaff nearly the same, just a longer piece of wood. Anyone can find a good length of wood and cut the extra branches off and peal the bark, wrap some cloth around your handle.

3. For a simple weapon like that I'd say 1 day, as it has no cost its not like they can sell them for any gain. But what your really want here are good quality, or masterwork, clubs and quarterstaffs, and these have a price of 300gp. This represents your well crafted, balanced, leather wrapped grips, maybe even metal-shod, styles of clubs and quarterstaffs. There is a difference in crude weapons and tools (hatchet) versus weapon quality.

Another thought; if having a weaponsmith crafting a club or staff is a troubling thought, require them to have 1 rank in craft (carpentry) to make weapons with mostly wood components. They'd still use their craft (weaponsmith) skill for their craft checks and whatnot, but the woodworking skill is still represented.
Though you can use craft untrained, so for simple wooden handles that shouldn't be too big of a hangup for anyone. Actually having skill ranks means you are better trained then the average joe.
I have absolutely no ranks in plumbing, but I fixed my leaking toilet and changed out the garbage disposal just fine... took me longer than a plumber may have been able to do it in, but I was still able to do the job.
 
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Another Crafting Question....



Caelis has Craft (Weaponsmith) +8, and he needs to make a dagger. Using Conan RPG pricing, the dagger costs 3 sp.

Caelis pays his 1 sp in raw materials cost, then he makes his Craft check, rolling a 17 for a total of 25. It's a DC 12 check.

Caelis needs a mere 15 to complete the weapon. His prodution total is (25 x 12 = 300).





Question 1. Every multiple of 5 cuts time to make the item in half, right?

Thus a production of 15 gets the dagger made in a week. A 30 production gets it made in half a week. A 45 production gets it made in a day and a half. A 60 production gets it made in 3/4 of a day. A 75 production gets it made in 1/3 of a day. A 90 production gets it made in about 2 hours. A 105 gets it made in 1 hour.

A 120 gets it made in half and hour.

A 135 gets it made in 15 minutes...

A 150 gets it made in 7.5 minutes....

A 175 gets it made in 225 seconds...

Wait! Wait! Wait!

C'mon...really? Caelis rolled so high that it virtually took him no time at all to make this dagger? Heck, firing up the forge probably to 15 minutes by itself.


Question 1 is: Are there no minimums on Crafting? Shouldn't there be a minimum amount of time that it takes to make a dagger?

Or, am I doing something wrong here?





Question 2: Barring an answer to Question 1, is there anything else that the character can do with those production points?

Let's say Caelis stopped at the 150 mark. Caelis still has another 150 points to go. If he paid the second raw materials cost, could Caelis make two daggers in 7.5 minutes?





Question 3: Explain to me what I'm doing wrong here. Please.
 



Question 1 is: Are there no minimums on Crafting? Shouldn't there be a minimum amount of time that it takes to make a dagger?


I seem to recall a minimum of one day (eight hours of work) for any item, except in the case of ammunition (which are generally 50/day).
 

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