Creating a Bard, Need help

[The Happy Avocado]

I would like some advice on this if anyone has the time. I want to play a bard. I rolled up a pretty good group of stats (17,17,16,14,13,11). I was thinking of going with a 1/2 elf with: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 17. Would you do anything different. Any ideas on racial stuff?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Oh, looks nice. Good Stats. Very good stats. Incredible good Stats...

Okay, the following advices might require to think over "long terms" - I don`t know your starting level. (You won`t have many Magic Items, but later on you will have to choose)

Other Races:
a) Human: More Skill Points, Bonus Feat. Can be an advantage. But since you have INT 16, you will have many skill points.
b) Elf: Free Weapon Profiencies, Bonus to Dex. The Free Weapon Profiencies are nice, since most of the Bard`s Bonus Weapons are from that list, so you can choose a more seldomly used - Whip, as an example, but Sap is also good...
(If you don`t choose elf you probably should choose a Bow Type, unless you plan mutliclassing with Rogue, which can be a good idea...)

Stats:
You might wish to switch Constitution and Strength (or Strength and Wisdom) to get some better combat abilities (A Mighty Bow). Do not swith with Strength if you decide to choose elf (negative CON Modifier isn`t a good idea).
But actually you do not have to fight as a Bard - singing can help much more...

Skills:
Obviously Perform. Choose a great diversity of instruments.
use Magic Device: It is a VIS - Very Important Skill. You won`t have to bother multiclassing in other spell caster classes (Your INT, WIS and CHA would allow any class), since you can use all magic devices.
Cha based Skills are important. A Bard is the face of the group.
(Don`t Forget to get Sense Motive)
If you want to mutliclass with a Rogue (only recommended if Rogue is your 1st level )

Equipment:
Cloak of Elvenkind / Boots of Elvenkind is always a "nice to have".
Different Magic Instruments (Song and Silence gives different instrument different effects on your Music) are important - for every situation an instrument.
Cloak of Elvenkind / Robe of Blending are also nice options. Circlet of Persuasion (+2 on all Charisma based Checks) is useful for Bards.
Wands of Cure Light (later some Cure Moderate) are very important.
Depending on your Use Magic Device Rank you can also choose Wands of Magic Missile, Wand of Shield and so on...
Lyre of Building seems to be the only really useful magic instrument in the DMG. But it is nice. (If you have a wizard in your group, you can later offer him to build his tower )

 

[Darklone]

Oh, looks nice. Good Stats. Very good stats. Incredible good Stats...

But actually you do not have to fight as a Bard - singing can help much more...

I agree on those stats. Halfelf: Would be useful if you want some wilderness skills and multiclass to some other classes... (thinking of my barbarianrangerroguebardsorcerer...) or simply for flair!

Why do all bards only sing? My bard always hacks and slashes into combat while singing...

Con mod: I would recommend more CON if you wanna go elf. You need every hitpoint you can get, especially if singleclassing (no evasion, no highhitpoint classes).

The most important thing about being a bard is the spell selection. I would advise at least
- one cure spell (probably lvl2)
- one truely defensive spell at each level. (mirror image, displacement, mage armour...)
Spend the other spells on utility things. Those are the things most sorcerers miss. (Love phantom steed)
- Don't forget silence as the ultimate counterspell. Ready a silence at an enemy spellcaster and his spell usually fumbles.

Remember: Bards are all about PANACHE. STYLE. FLAIR. Leave the work to the others. The applause is yours.

 

[G.A. Donis]

Song and Silence has a feat that allows bards to use their bardic music 4 more times a day. At first level you can sing 5 times a day. Never be without your bardic music in a battle again! My bard in our Sun & Scale campaign has it and he starts singing at the drop of a hat. I can't remember for sure, but Grease is on the bard's list isn't it? I've always found that to be a pretty good spell especially at the lower levels.

 

[Number47]

Are you starting at first level? If so, then forget about getting Use Magic Device just yet, but make sure you pick it up and max it out as soon as it will be useful. Maybe at third or fourth. Are you in the type of game where you can purchase almost any kind of magic item, especially scrolls and wands? Then take Skill Focus: Use Magic Device as your third level feat.

 

[The Happy Avocado]

I will be starting at first and there is no chance of purchasing magic for at least a number of levels.
I am really torn right now over the human bonus feat, the elven weapons, and the half elf role play potential.
Thanks for the tips, if there is anything else you all think of please let me know.

 

[Aziraphale]

Song and Silence has a feat that allows bards to use their bardic music 4 more times a day.

Could you (or anyone else) post the name and prereqs of that feat? To my mind, it negates any reason to take more than one level of Bard, since bardic music is their only cool ability

Seriously, though, the strength of a Bard is in his versatility. Make sure you emphasise that, or else you'll just be a second rate fighter or sorceror.

 

[Conjureman]

I've been playing a bard in a campaign for about a year now and here are my suggestions...

Race: Go with what you like. All races have advantages and disadvantages so it really comes down to how you want to play it. My bard is human and I have really, really appreciated the bonus skill points and bonus feat.

Stats: Again it depends on what you want to do. I personally would arrange them pretty much as you have. Do keep in mind stat change issues if you chose a race though. Hit points will be a low commodity and you have not the best AC in the game.

Skills: This is my favorite part of the bard. You can fill almost any niche in a party, if you choose to specialize, by your choice of skills and spells. Conversely, you can choose to be more of a "generalist" and pick up a variety of skills. Raise that perform every level, though! Keep in mind how you want to play the bard when you make your choices.

Also keep in mind how your DM runs a game. If this is a new DM with whom you are unfamiliar, ASK. With your high charisma, skills like diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, etc. seem like great choices (and let you create your own "bard" niche) but if you play in a hack and slash game, or if your DM pretty much bases outcome purely on role playing, you are just wasting points. Does the DM make everyone roll diplomacy or intimidate unskilled when they try to influence others? If so, definetly raise these. If not, you might not want to waste the points...in the end you would likely find yourself the *only* one being asked to roll when you try to use charisma based skills. (I know that seems insane but if a DM is very role playing based, the thought process at times goes like this "Hey, that was great role playing from the fighter. I am totally convinced. The evil priest would definetly let him go." Later on down the road, the bard tries to resolve a conflict between two warring tribes with diplomacy. The good natured DM thinks "Let me have him roll diplomacy...I don't want him to have wasted all those skill points and never roll it", not thinking about the fact that in reality you are now being penalized for spending the points because even if you role play it well, you *still* have to roll when no one else does. Trust me on this.)

Is the campaign high magic or low magic? If it is a high magic campaign, use magic device is definetly a great skill. If you are in Faerun and tripping over Vecna's Eye while walking to the bathroom, by all means, spend points on it. But if magic items are the rarest of the rare, don't waste you time as it will be worthless. When magic items are rare, they are more likely to be "intended" for a certain character when obtained, meaning you won't have extra wands floating around that you could utilize.

Decipher script can also be a good skill, depending on the type of campaign.

Personally, I did a bit of generalization because I am (sadly) in a party with no cleric, no wizard, and no rogue. So, I have raised move silently and hide, and put a fair number of points into "wizardish" knowledge skills and spellcraft. Trust me, if you generalize instead of specialize, those bookoo points you seem to have from high intelligence and being human get used pretty quickly.

Some rules of thumb for assigning skill points: If you go through several adventures and never find a skill useful, dump it and don't bother to raise it anymore. It is not likely to come up often enough to be worth your expenditure. I did this with decipher script ("To translate the language, you have to have some sort of reference to work from...") as it was utterly useless. Ditto with Use Magic Device as we play in a low magic campaign.


Feats: Pick weapon feats that suit your weapon choice (i.e-either weapon finesse and weapon focus or point blank shot and precise shot). Skill focus with perform is great. If using Use Magical Device, skill focus for that skill is an excellent choice, as well. As many, many spells from your spell list are of the enchantment school Spell Focus: Enchantment is another good choice. If your DM is the type that lets you talk your way out of combat and only allows you to speak on your initiative (don't ask) improved initiative can be helpful to let you get some diplomatic words out before everyone starts blowing everyone up.

Weapons: You are a bard so go with style, baby, go with style. With your high dex, you are best off with either something like the rapier with weapon finesse, or going with a ranged weapon like the bow. I initially did weapon finesse but basically, I sucked. I think I was third level before I actually hit in combat. With DM permission (and a bit of story telling creativity) I switched to the long bow and am much happier. Consider this: A human bard at 1st level can start play with proficiency in the long bow (chosen from the one martial weapon proficiency), point blank shot, and precise shot. This lets you stay out of melee and fire into the fight with no penalties. In fact, if you are within 30 feet you get a +1 bonus to attack and damage. Plus, bows do great crit damage so 20s will light an extra special little fire in your heart. Also, once you get access to third level spells you can take haste, which makes you one arrow firing enemy nightmare...

Spells: I go with a combination of versatility and duration. We don't get to cast that many spells per day compared to "pure casters" so spells like mage armor, cat's grace, and eagle's splendor (from Magic of Faerun) become excellent choices because you get more bang for you buck, so to speak. Each lasts one hour per level and while the effects are not explosive, good rolls with having only these three spells used will give you approximately +6 to your AC (with no armor check penalty if you use mage armor and forgo phsical armor), +2 to your initiative, +2 to your attack (if using finesse or a ranged weapon), +2 to the DC of any spell you cast requiring a save, and temporarily raise your score in a dozen or so skills. The other nice thing is that these spells come in handy almost every adventure. Make sure to have at least one spell per spell level that has very obvious and frequent use potential. That way, almost no matter what happens in an adventure, you will have spells that are useful despite your limited repetoire. I also agree that utility spells are a good idea...comprehend languages, phantom steed, and if you are going to be a diplomat, never underestimate Tongues. The charm line of spells is also great (charm person, charm monster) but the downside is they are "all or nothing" effects...if the target saves, too bad. If you have a cleric in the party, you can forego the cure line of spells, although it is nice to at least have access to cure light wounds (either through spells known or a wand/scroll) in case the cleric goes down.

Equipment: *Sighs and wishes his bard could have all those wonderful things someone else posted* At eigth level, I finally dumped my +1 leather armor as mage armor was better. Soooo, as you can guess I am really not in a position to comment on magic items...

Good luck and you will have a lot of fun! The 3rd edition bard is a great character class and the first real "playable" bard DnD has come up with.

 

[Michael Tree]

A lot of what I would or would not do different would depend on the character concept.

However, if you're asking for min-max advice, I would recommend a few changes.

- Wisdom is an unneccessary stat for bards. Bards already have good will saves, and perception skills isn't their forte, so you'd be better off putting that 14 in Con, and putting the 13 that was in Con into Strength, to be a bit better in combat.

- As other have pointed out, elves and humans make better bards than halfelves. If you're playing in the FR, sun elves are also a nice choice, as their Int bonus gives you more skill points and helps your bardic knowledge.

- Some must-have spells: Prestidigitation, Cat's Grace, Silence, Haste, Greater Magic Weapon, Improved Invisibility, and at least one healing spell. Also note that bards gain good enchantment spells at approximately the same level as wizards. Hold person, Charm monster, and suggestion are quite nice, especially if combined with Spell Focus (enchantment).

 

[FANGO]

What? Bardic music is the only cool ability for bards? Tsk tsk....

You should never underestimate the coolness of bardic knowledge...I've got a bard with incredible intelligence (I've put as much effort into raising it as I have into charisma), some feats, items, etc. wh ohas a +31 on all his bardic knowledge checks. Among other things, this means that he has a 100% chance of knowing every wizard's childhood nickname. That's WAY cooler than a +1 to attack and damage... ;-)