D&D General D&D 3.5 - splatbook power creep or no?

[VHawkwinter]

Which leads to one of my personal gripes with 3.5 - how the game is unplayable unless you know every nook and cranny of the rules. It less rewards system master and more punishes lack of it.

Even with it as one of my favourite systems, I don't disagree with this criticism. Though that can be constrained by not piling on more and more content, you will still need to understand whatever content you do include.

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

this requires me to have extensive knowledge of the system to know about all of them, which requires much deeper knowledge of the rules and/or association with community that does this research. Which leads to one of my personal gripes with 3.5 - how the game is unplayable unless you know every nook and cranny of the rules. It less rewards system master and more punishes lack of it.

You’re not wrong. At a surface level, 3.5e should not punish a DM for lacking encyclopedic rules knowledge. But there is a certain segment of its fanbase that makes the edition actively less attractive to DM. The game can be curated, yes, but that only works if players accept curation and understand why a DM would do it. Too often, the DM wants to run a straightforward fantasy game where the dragon breathes fire and class roles mostly mean what they say, while a player wants to import some optimization-board combo with little regard for the campaign around it. At that point, the burden is no longer just “learn the rules.” It becomes “constantly defend the game from people treating it as a loophole-mining exercise.” That is a very good way to make DMing 3.5 feel less appealing than spending a Saturday afternoon modding Skyrim.

 

[Greg K]

. Frankly I wouldn't include most 3.5 content, and would default to 3.0/3.5 FR books (removing problem options) + core + select UA options + psionics + manual of the planes + Arms & Equipment + maybe the 3.0 Class Books like Song & Silence or Tome & Blood. If I were running Dragonlance or Ravenloft or Eberron, the FR books get swapped for their campaign books instead.

Yeah, I followed a similar approach. I used the core 3.0 books* + select UA material + select material from other specific 3.0 and 3.5 WOTC products + select material from various third parties (including some new classes).

* I used the DMG tailored spell variant for clerics and also removed various spells from some other class spell lists.

For prestige classes, I also kept to the philosophy from the DMG and some 3.0 designer articles in Dragon about PrCs being about specific cultures and/ or organizations found in the campaign world. I only allowed those which I determined fit the setting I was running. Almost all were tied to specific national, cultural, or religious organizations. If a player character was from the appropriate culture or region where a PrC was found, I would allow the character to take the Prc, but, often, the character had to start with either a class variant or use the DMG variant 0/0 multi-classing at first level (in that order)) and take the PrC when they qualified. Otherwise, player's had to be in the right place (e.g. region or city) and find a trainer to take an available Prc, but once play began, there was never a guarantee that the party would be in the correct place at a specific level (or ever at all) for the character to aquire a specific PrC. Also, I never allowed characters to have more than one PrC (the same went for base classes).

 

[GrimCo]

I just remeberd one of the best power creeps i liked a lot. Dawnforge: Crucible of legends by Fantasy Flight Games. All the races had racial feats and racial transformations which you gained as you leveled up. There were some cool options there.

Even official WoTC catalogue is massive, but when one adds all the 3pp stuff, it gets even more overwhelming.

For new GMs, best way to get into 3.5 is starting with core only then slowly introducing splatbook options. And while 3.5 had some absolute bonkers combos and rewarded system mastery, for me and my groups, real fun was playing with bunch of tier 3-4-5 classes. They were weaker, had situational abilities or were very niche, but they were fun. Also, game was much more balanced and actually playable at levels above 10. Classes like Warlock, Swashbuckler, Shaman, Shugenja, Marshall, Ninja, Scout etc. None of them are on par with those tier 1-2 classes, but when you make party of those classes, DM can breathe more easily.

 

[VHawkwinter]

Yeah, I followed a similar approach. I used the core 3.0 books* + select UA material + select material from other specific 3.0 and 3.5 WOTC products + select material from various third parties (including some new classes).

Also, I never allowed characters to have more than one PrC (the same went for base classes).

I didn't have this one, but when I wanted 3.0, I ran it as you had to find a trainer or similar to pick up a new class of any kind. I tried the free for all variety in Pathfinder. It was fine, but nobody was cheesing out a 5-class build.

 

[CreamCloud0]

3e was before my time but as a rule of thumb i have to agree with what I’ve seen stated: even if they’re individually of about equal power more splats means more options and enough options will always result in unintended synergies and combinations that are more powerful than what any of the individual components were intended or could be by themselves.