D&D 4th Edition

[SSquirrel]

4th edition should not appear until at least 2014, give us ten years to actually play the game before you throw a new one at us.

What riles me the most is that people seem to support a new edition every couple years. I hear posts like "But they are a business, so they are there to make money not cater to the players." What utter rubbish. If it were not for the players they wouldn't have the money to make. D&D and other RPG's are not money makers, we all know this, but because of that the publishers should look at what their customer base wants and cater to that to make their money. New editions of the game will just people away if they appear every few years.

2014 would be 14 years of 3.0 and 11 years of 3.5.

Yes they are a business and out to make money. Hasbro, however, is a huge corporation and only bought WOTC to get Magic and Pokemon and the profits it provides. D&D was a total afterthought for them. If D&D stops making Hasbro, the corporate giant, enough money..they will indeed drop D&D. Hasbro appears to be operating on a flawed perception of how the D&D customer works. They seem to think that, like with Magic, they will gleefully fork over the cash to remain current as often as possible, but D&D players in general dislike this concept. Then again there's still a lot of roleplayers who hate Magic and the like so it makes sense.

Hasbro will do what it wants, flawed or otherwise. If they force out a new edition in 2006 and drive away all of the fans of D&D, then what we'll see happen is they will instead see that people just don't like D&D anymore, not that they screwed up, and they will shut it down and (if we're lucky) sell it to someone else to put out. Naturally, we're only lucky in that case if the group who buys it does a good job with it.

Hagen

 

[Staffan]

Not really. You can't discount 2.1 (Skills&Powers). It changed the rules much more than what 3.5 did to 3. I dunno about 1e UA, but I know that it introduced new classes, so that's quite a change too. I don't think you should discount OD&D either; noone that I know played OD&D and AD&D at the same time, everyone switched from the former to the latter.

I'm not sure you can really count the Player's Option books. After all, the only support those got was a single adventure (Gates of Firestorm Peak). As a contrast, D&D 3.5 is quite heavily supported.

I think a better match for Player's Option would be Unearthed Arcana: a book (well, three books for PO) full of variant rules.

 

[Blue_Kryptonite]

I'm further predicting Hasbro won't be producing D&D 5E. They will either license the name, like they did with Gamma World, or sell it off completely.

...Doctor Anomalous is thrown into a wonderful dreamworld where D&D 4.0 is released by Green Ronin...

 

[Bendris Noulg]

I just hope they don't do something stupid like say, not produce a 4E Monster Manual. If you want monsters to fight, you buy a box of random minis which includes the stat cards.

That would end upgrading editions for me, unless 4E continues the Open Game concept and those stats are available sans minithefts... Ehr, miniatures. If not, it would be over; I'd remain d20/OGL.

At the same time, even if 4E isn't miniatures-driven (which I also foresee happening, so I'm not holding my breath) and d20-based, but isn't OGC (i.e., no SRD update), than I'd be dropping it as well.

(And a quick echo of Dr. Anomalous's dreamworld of D&D by way of Green Ronin, although there are 2-3 other companies that I would find equally pleasing...)

Staffan: Not really. The Options were part of the last Monstrous Compendium Appendix (last 2? Can't remember...) and most of the Dark Sun material that followed also used the Options. Granted, this was all the Psionics system and nothing else, but it was used.

As is, though, quite a bit of the Options made it into 3.X: Metamagic from Spells & Magic, the current Skills system is closer to the Skills & Powers Skill System than either are to NWPs, several melee Feats (including Sunder, Cleave, etc.) as well as Epic Spellcasting were High Level Campaign options, and quite a few combat rules are direct portations or evolutions of miniature rules from Combat & Tactics. So I certainly wouldn't discredit the Option books; More of the options survived the birth of d20 than 1E/2E's core system did.

 

[Staffan]

Staffan: Not really. The Options were part of the last Monstrous Compendium Appendix (last 2? Can't remember...) and most of the Dark Sun material that followed also used the Options. Granted, this was all the Psionics system and nothing else, but it was used.

Well, the psionics were also included in the revised Dark Sun box, which accounts for using them in other Dark Sun stuff. But I was thinking more along the lines of the kits, custom classes, spells from Sp&M, Weapon Mastery and so on. The only 2e book that really used Player's Option stuff other than psionics was Gates of Firestorm Peak (there may or may not have been some books that had sidebars mentioning PO stuff though). As a contrast, every WOTC D&D release and I guess about 95% of third-party d20 releases since the revised edition of D&D3 have been designed for use with 3.5e, not 3.0e.

As is, though, quite a bit of the Options made it into 3.X: Metamagic from Spells & Magic, the current Skills system is closer to the Skills & Powers Skill System than either are to NWPs, several melee Feats (including Sunder, Cleave, etc.) as well as Epic Spellcasting were High Level Campaign options, and quite a few combat rules are direct portations or evolutions of miniature rules from Combat & Tactics. So I certainly wouldn't discredit the Option books; More of the options survived the birth of d20 than 1E/2E's core system did.

That's more of an argument for the use of the PO books as a testbed for new ideas rather than a revision. Kind of like Unearthed Arcana, really (though we have yet to see to what extent UA stuff will be used by third-party publishers).

 

[francisca]

That would end upgrading editions for me, unless 4E continues the Open Game concept and those stats are available sans minithefts... Ehr, miniatures. If not, it would be over; I'd remain d20/OGL.

At the same time, even if 4E isn't miniatures-driven (which I also foresee happening, so I'm not holding my breath) and d20-based, but isn't OGC (i.e., no SRD update), than I'd be dropping it as well.

(And a quick echo of Dr. Anomalous's dreamworld of D&D by way of Green Ronin, although there are 2-3 other companies that I would find equally pleasing...)

Yeah, I'm with you all the way. As a fairly infrequent player of 3.x, I never really fully absorbed all of 3.0 before 3.5 hit. Around the time 3.5 was released it was apparent that our gaming group would be playing long-term. We meet more frequently than in the past, but if I'm right about the timing of 4E, we won't have exhausted 3.5, and won't want to change, and unless someone puts the proverbial gun to our head, we probably won't.

What will be interesting to watch is a scenario where Wizards/Hasbro does all of these things things I am predicting. How many 3.5 players will move to 4? How many will stay with 3.5/OGL games, and become the new "old guard"? I would not want to be a major player in OGL/d20 and have to split my resources between my bread and butter and 4E. But again, I this is all rampant speculation, has nothing to do with reality, and is probably just a waste of time. Then again, time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

As far as who would be best to take over control of the D&D brand name, I'd be happy with Green Ronin, Necromancer, Kenzer, AEG, some group lead by the C&C and Gygax, Bastion, or maybe even Decipher. Just not White Wolf, after what they let Baugh and company do to Gamma World.

 

[Belen]

Unfortunately, I see the 4r Minis-game as the future of DnD. I would be another person who would stick with the 3e d20/ OGL system and I hope that some of the publishers would stick with us.

However, the DnD brand name is very recognizable. A lot of companies may feel forced to switch and that would screw the pooch for those who wanted to remain with the older editions.

I would love to hear Monte, or Sean, or Chris comment in this thread and see what their opinion on the matter may be. They are a bit closer to the source than we are.

 

[francisca]

However, the DnD brand name is very recognizable. A lot of companies may feel forced to switch and that would screw the pooch for those who wanted to remain with the older editions.

I would love to hear Monte, or Sean, or Chris comment in this thread and see what their opinion on the matter may be. They are a bit closer to the source than we are.

You know, I still play 1E with a bunch of guys, and it's still a blast, so I personally am not too worried about people switching support to the vaporous 4E. There is way more crunch already available for 3.X/OGL than I can ever use, so if the market dropped dead 5 minutes ago, I could still play D&D in one form or another for the rest of my life. And if I run out of ideas for homebrews, as long as there is ebay and the net, I can get all of the fluff, campaign settings, and adventures I'll ever need and convert them. For instance, I have never played in the following publish campaigns: Forgotten Realms, DragonLance, Planescape, Ravenloft, Kalamar, L5R, DarkSun, and I won't be giving Ebberon a 1st look let alone a second. Toss in the non-D&D settings and systems like Deadlands, Talislanta, Glorantha, etc... and I have a ton of material sitting out there to use. Seriously, if every single RPG company simply evaporated right now, I'd have no problem continuing my play of D&D.

 

[Neophyte25]

If 4e comes out before January 1, 2010, I vow to close this chapter of my life -- the RPG hobby -- permanently ... that is, if I hadn't done it before then (been in this hobby for 20 years).

As for Hasbro selling WotC, it is doubtful. Many companies entering into the TCG industry shows that WotC is a major cash cow for their TCG products, especially when they have found a pot of gold at the end of another rainbow (i.e., Duel Masters). But the first, original Trading Card Game, Magic: The Gathering have been steadily selling better than any RPG products.

(Source: http://www.gamingreport.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=96)

What I'm afraid is that despite the launch of 3.5e, it didn't show any strong sale and they are losing momentum in the RPG industry. And if they continue the practice and gameplan they're on now, then they'll close up the RPG division. It is with great sorrow that we now don't have the same people that were running Wizards of Coast in the upper level as we have in 1999-2000.

I still think it is a mistake to introduce the revision too early, and if they continue to ride on this road, then 2006 will see the launch of 4e, and the resentment will grow. And there will be gamers like me that will leave D&D. Funny, 3e brought back many former gamers to D&D, and now they may be turning them away with their business practice.

So what if you don't like an eventual 4e....you are still the proud owner of 3e aren't you???? If you don't DM it won't really make a difference except that there will be a lot less (or even no) books released for 3e...
But still god knows how many there have already been made... Just trying to collect all those would take you a long time and thus still add to your gaming pleasure!
And if you actually happen to LIKE 4e there is absolutely no need to quit 3e..I've played 2e now for 10 years...and STILL DO!!!! I've got 15 'old' systems that I would still like to play ranging from Dr Who (the English one) to Megatraveller. But I still bought 3e, Star Wars d20 and Call of Cthulhu d20..
If nothing else they are a great way to come up with new adventures for your PC's!!!
Whatever Hasbro/WOTC decide YOU still have the option of continuing on and using your OWN imagination to better the system or come up with new adventures!
*ends mad raving*

 

[diaglo]

2010 has always been my guess for 4edADnD.

1977-1989 1edADnD
1989-2000 2edADnD
2000- present for 3edADnD