D&D 4th Edition

[Kae'Yoss]

Uhm...aren't Sorceror's already their own class? Like as of 3.0 even.

Yea, they're a different class, they appear in PHB separately. But let's look at their features compared to the wizard: Summon Familiar - nothing new. Spell list - nothing new. OK, they get some class skills wizards don't get (Bluff - wohoo) and more weapon proficiencies (oh, great). And they cast simultaneously.
All in all, the class isn't more than a stripped wizard with the spontaneous spellcasting option (and don't forget that they weren't in 3e from the very beginning, as they wanted to introduce spontaneous casting all the way, but saw that it didn't work as the only thing, and left it with the bard and created the sorcerer to keep the system).

I want a sorcerer that is his own class, really different from wizards. This means different spell list and a couple of class features wizards don't get. And please get rid of that one level delay of gaining new spell levels.

See I'm one of the guys who thinks Rangers should be non-spellcasters. I would almost like to see them release several versions of the same game system but have each version tweaked so you could have Low Magic and High Magic editions, etc etc.

Won't happen. They had much more work, but they probably won't sell enough extra rule sets to make it worthwhile. But they could make the rules more flexible so both is possible.

Me I would rather ditch Vancian magic. I wouldn't mind a spell point system or even keep spell slots but use somehting like the AU system instead.

Hm... I think that is one of those things that make D&D what it is. Should be left in IMO.

 

[Ranger REG]

*ends mad raving*

See my post above you (or page 2 of this thread).

 

[Beretta]

Note that I don't like this future path that I've speculated about.

Ditto!

I used to play GW games but got burned on the yearly price hikes.

D&D is a lot more complex than any GW product so I'm not sure that targetting the kiddies would work as well for WotC were they to adopt a busines model on the lines of GW. Particularly in miniatures. Credit where it's due: GW are rightfully the top dogs in that particular area.

Anyway, I adopted 3E because it offered significant improvements over the prior two editions. 4E would also have to do the same in order for me to forget the $100's I've spent on 3E.

 

[Hardhead]

My dream 4e looks like this:

* More subclasses:

Wizards specialization looks something like that in Arcana Unearthed, giving each school unique flavor.

The totem barbarians from UA are there.

Sorcerers choose a "lineage" when they're created. This lineage gives works kind of like a domain. It gives them automatic spells at certain levels, and a suite of special abilities (each lineage would have a special ability granted at levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20).

Clerics are made more flexible, so they're more like 2e clerics. They loose Turn Undead, heavy armor proficiency, and a the good fort save. However, they have a suite of gods to choose from, and each god gives them new abiliteis Pelor would give them Turn Undead back, an martial god might give them Heavy Armor prof back, along with maybe a martial weapon prof. A god of knowledge might give them a good Will save, and bardic knowledge, ect.

A Swashbuckler-like character added as a core class.

Rogues and Rangers possibly folded together, with the classes' special abilities making you more city or wilderness-ish.

Paladins become a prestige class, because their archtype is too narrow to give them lots of flexibility.

Not sure about Druids. With the flexible cleric, you might be able to fold them back in (as in 2e).

Some kind of magical BAB progression, so you don't need "band-aid" PrCs like the Eldritch Knight or the Mystic Theurge.


*More PrC Flava

I'd like each PrC to have at least half a page of their write-up devoted to detailing the organization and history of the prestige class, with each class requiring some kind of RP hoop to jump through, along with suggestions on how to incorporate this PrC into your campaign.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[SSquirrel]

Yea, they're a different class, they appear in PHB separately. But let's look at their features compared to the wizard: Summon Familiar - nothing new. Spell list - nothing new. OK, they get some class skills wizards don't get (Bluff - wohoo) and more weapon proficiencies (oh, great). And they cast simultaneously.
All in all, the class isn't more than a stripped wizard with the spontaneous spellcasting option (and don't forget that they weren't in 3e from the very beginning, as they wanted to introduce spontaneous casting all the way, but saw that it didn't work as the only thing, and left it with the bard and created the sorcerer to keep the system).

I want a sorcerer that is his own class, really different from wizards. This means different spell list and a couple of class features wizards don't get. And please get rid of that one level delay of gaining new spell levels.

See I kinda always felt the Sorceror was semi nifty but largely superfluous. The delay on learning makes sense as they are just kinda getting it all intuitively, which generally is a slower process than study. I don't really want to see a return to the Wizard/Illusionist/Druid/Cleric spell lists of 2E. Unified spell list with sub categories of spells ala Arcana Unearthed works quite nicely IMO.

Hm... I think that is one of those things that make D&D what it is. Should be left in IMO.

That's why it's in 3E, it's one of the sacred cows. Me, I like steak.

Hagen

 

[allenw]

Steve Jackson Games just announnced that 4th edition is coming out at GenCon this year: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/
No, wait, that's GURPS...

 

[diaglo]

Steve Jackson Games just announnced that 4th edition is coming out at GenCon this year: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/
No, wait, that's GURPS...

don't forget KenzerCo released 4ed too awhile back.

4edHackmaster.

 

[William Ronald]

The row between WotC and the Valar Project over the Book of Erotic Fantasy may make some of the Hasbro executives a little more cautious over the use of the D20 license.
[\QUOTE]

I dunno. It seems to me that a company the size of Hasbro sees nastier legal and public relations issues every day in it's breakfast cereal. Just because we saw a row doesn't mean Hasbro really vared all that much, deep down.

Plus, how big a row was it, really? How much verbiage was there from each company? Toss out all the speculation and stuff we wrote, and it doesn't seem so big, does it?

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Umbran. Let me try to clarify my position.

Possibly Hasbro has seen worse public relations issues on a regular basis. However, some executives at Hasbro might be particularly annoyed that a former employee published something that lead to a change in the D20 license. (From what I recall of the WotC press releases, it seemed that there was some effort made to explain that the Book of Erotic Fantasy was not sanctioned by the company.) Hasbro may preemptively decide that a tighter rein on the D20 license might be a good idea.

It might not take much effort to restrict the D20 license further -- both for commercial reasons and to avoid what WotC might see as headaches from former employees.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

From what I recall of the WotC press releases, it seemed that there was some effort made to explain that the Book of Erotic Fantasy was not sanctioned by the company.

The press release announcing the formation of Valar and the future release of the Book of Erotic Fantasy made claim to "compatibility", which is a big no-no, so both Valar and WotC were hot to state the such wasn't the case once the message boards lit up with conversation over it (with WotC placing stress on their lack of involvement).

 

[Ranger REG]

Actually, when the Book of Erotic Fantasy was announced with Anthony Valterra's name attached to it, he is still pretty much employed by WotC as the President. Eventually, he did resigned. What is not known to the public is that Gwendolyn Kestrel, wife of Andy Collins and co-author of the book in question, is still employed at WotC. It's good to be a low-level employee.

As for the "tighter rein," many WotC employees, current and former, have stated that there was about a year-long, on-going discussion about restricting the kind of material that would be appropriate for third-party publishers to publish under their logo. The conservatives among them believe that they dont' want the logo to be associated with sleazy and propagandist materal. While others believe that the logo is akin to the "DVD" logo trademarked by JVC, which is used on any type of media material without restriction. Whether the book in question hasten the process or not, it was already set in motion to be implemented, despite objections from some of the proponents of the d20/OGL movement.