D&D 5E (2014) D&D 5e is fantastic. Just a topic of appreciation and some forum analysis.

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Yep. Maybe it's because I grew up in my main gaming years in the early 80s where we did all our own maps and adventures, but to be perfectly honest, all I need is the PHB and maybe MM and I could game for decades with just that and have fun. After all, they haven't officially announced any new AD&D1e stuff for decades and I still play that to this day (although it is being replaced by 5e).

That sums up my view pretty well.

 

[Umbran]

Now you're picking nits.

No, sir, I am making a fairly meaningful point about how people on the internet tend to interpret things to drive statements toward extremes. This is pretty darned relevant to the discussion, and I'd thank you to not try to shrug it off as nitpicking. I think that rather than nitpicking, it is *telling*.

Though, the attempt to dismiss it is also pretty typical, and that's certainly doesn't hurt my point, either.

"Distortion" is part of communication and unavoidable.

Please consider that what happened here is roughly equivalent to mistaking, "We hope to deliver in early June," for, "We will deliver on June 1st," turning a statement of a plan that has implied reservations for a promise. Which, in fact, we see pretty commonly, don't we?

I rather agree with you, that this kind of distortion of something so basic is, for our current culture, nigh unavoidable in a group of any size. And that pretty much makes my point. Why on this good Earth would anyone want to discuss plans when this happens to even such a simple statement?

 

[HobbitFan]

They managed good communication with the fans during playest period.

I would be careful of blaming poor communications and its results on the fans.
A big chunk of WOTC's woes, especially in 4E period were self-inflicted wounds.

 

[Umbran]

They managed good communication with the fans during playest period.

And they did is largely by saying, "Here, look at the rules," than by making announcements and dicussing plans.

A big chunk of WOTC's woes, especially in 4E period were self-inflicted wounds.

I think you may be forgetting that 3e was pre-Facebook, and pre-Twitter. Our communications styles and patterns have changed rapidly. Yes, they self-inflicted some wounds... with things that in previous eras would have been taken as self-deprecating humor, and not blown up into major kerfluffles.

And that last is what I'm mostly talking about - what happens to their words out here in the wild, after they are stated. Proportions grow and things get driven to extremes more strongly than they used to.

 

[Staffan]

This thread reminds me a lot of CGP Grey's video "This video will make you angry":
[video=youtube;rE3j_RHkqJc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc[/video]

Short version: social media encourages controversy, because clickbait. People happy with something generally don't post much about that thing, and when they do they don't generate much in the way of response.

 

[HobbitFan]

And they did is largely by saying, "Here, look at the rules," than by making announcements and dicussing plans.



I think you may be forgetting that 3e was pre-Facebook, and pre-Twitter. Our communications styles and patterns have changed rapidly. Yes, they self-inflicted some wounds... with things that in previous eras would have been taken as self-deprecating humor, and not blown up into major kerfluffles.

And that last is what I'm mostly talking about - what happens to their words out here in the wild, after they are stated. Proportions grow and things get driven to extremes more strongly than they used to.

That's a good point Umbran.
I wish that rather than give up and limit communication they had decided to try harder.
I've tried on twitter to engage them and get answers/clarification.
They'll answer rules questions and make jokes but they won't talk about much else.

 

[Hussar]

Here's a question because I wasn't paying much attention at the time. How far in advance did they announce new playtest packets? As I recall, we get some warning, but, not a whole lot before the next packet came out.

 

[Mercurius]

No, sir, I am making a fairly meaningful point about how people on the internet tend to interpret things to drive statements toward extremes. This is pretty darned relevant to the discussion, and I'd thank you to not try to shrug it off as nitpicking. I think that rather than nitpicking, it is *telling*.

Though, the attempt to dismiss it is also pretty typical, and that's certainly doesn't hurt my point, either.

So you're using me as your example for why internet communication is problematic? Hmm.

Please consider that what happened here is roughly equivalent to mistaking, "We hope to deliver in early June," for, "We will deliver on June 1st," turning a statement of a plan that has implied reservations for a promise. Which, in fact, we see pretty commonly, don't we?

I rather agree with you, that this kind of distortion of something so basic is, for our current culture, nigh unavoidable in a group of any size. And that pretty much makes my point. Why on this good Earth would anyone want to discuss plans when this happens to even such a simple statement?

Of course. But are you saying that because "We hope to deliver in early June" will inevitably be distorted, they shouldn't even bother? I disagree with that. Distortion will always occur, and people will always twist things, make strawmen, etc. But there's really no such as "not playing the game" - so we might as well do our best, which includes trying to communicate in as clear a manner as possible.

Whether or not it is justified--or rather, to what degree it is justified--WotC has a poor reputation in communication. They probably realize that, and presumably their answer is "minimal or vague communication." But this also has drawbacks, which we've seen on this forum. People want to be informed, they want to know what is going on.

I don't know what the answer is, what the right balance is. Someone is always going to be unhappy, no matter what WotC says (or doesn't say). Maybe you're right, and maybe WotC's approach is the lesser of possible evils. I don't know. I personally would take a different approach, though.

Here's an example. Let's say there's two extreme approaches:

A. "We've got X, Y, and Z planned, and they'll be available in 1, 2, and 3!"
B. "We're doing stuff."

Maybe I'm over-exaggerating, but it seems they went from A to B in 4E to 5E. I think some middle ground is possible, even if it is much closer to B than A. How about: "We're working on a game license, on bringing back online support, on some kind of electronic magazines, and on a setting sourcebook or two, but we're not sure about dates yet. Stay tuned and we'll let you know when we've got a better idea of things."

For me personally, I actually like surprise products. There's something exciting about knowing that something like Fantasy Grounds can just fall out of the sky at any moment. But I would like to know the general plan, whether we're going to see any books beyond story arcs. We don't even know that.

 

[Hussar]

But, let's use your example Mercurious. They announce that they are working on a license. Ok, fine. They actually have done that. So, people start speculating on the license and how great it will be when 3pp can finally start adding material. Ok, fantastic. Then, a few months later, they state that the license talks have fallen through and no license is forthcoming.

The fandom goes nuts. Heck, look at something as relatively minor as the Morningstar program. Six months later and people are still bitching about it. As soon as WOTC says they are even trying to do something, people automatically spin that into they will do that thing and sooner rather than later.

They simply cannot win here.

 

[Fralex]

Yeah, D&D is pretty great. I like it! Might be fun if more people started topics about interesting things they did in the game, so it's not ALL rules questions. I plan to do some sort of campaign journal if I start a game and it's going well.