D&D 5E D&D 5e is fantastic. Just a topic of appreciation and some forum analysis.

[Gundan Shadeslinger]

5e is great. And I think I'm one of those weirdos who thinks they're handling everything very well. When people complain about something, I almost inevitably think, "...but I like that, though." Lack of needless splat books, self-contained core, focus on adventures and focus on capitalizing on the brand outside of the (relatively) niche table top RPG products--I think those are all great ways to handle it. I feel like for the first time in my time with D&D--and I started in 2000 when 3e came out--I have time to breathe. I don't have to worry about what the new supplements and classes and spells and direction for the game will be. I can just keep playing and enjoying what I've got.

D&D has always done this but this time around they aren't handling it very well.

Who forced you into buying the splat books? They have never made splat books that you needed in order to play the game so by leaving out products, they are catering to a specific gaming group.

I would argue they are less focused on adventures in this edition because we are seeing few but really long AP's with no support for the shorter ones which in shows a lack of focus.

What you describe has always been and in previous editions you saw more of. Back in the 1st and 2nd editions we had video games, toys, and a cartoon. During 3rd edition we had some digital tools, video games, a movie, and an MMO. During 4th edition we had a VTT and a character builder. What we have now is a lot of "talk" about expanding the brand but no visible steps in doing that, and at the same time, seeing some neglect in product support.

You don't have to buy anything outside the core three. Why do you feel the need to go into a shop and buy anything outside the three and then complain about splat?

Why not just buy what you want to buy leave the rest for people who may want it?

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I came to 5e from Ad&d and B/X. I took several years out and started to think about playing again, and dusted off my red box and my 1e phb and dmg - only to find 5e was about to launch.
I've found it brilliant, retains the sense of the game I grew up on while adding what are for me innovative new ideas.
I'm Dming a group consisting of an old 1e head who likewise hasn't played in years, a mmorpg player new to tabletop (who is really buying into the rp opportunities), and the 1e head's 16yo son. All of them are loving it.
Even if last session they collectively rolled 12 1's (all in combat) and 1 20 (a death save). They like the game, but the dice clearly hate them!

 

[Umbran]

Well said and I agree, Umbran, to the extent that it may be that what you describe is the primary causative factor. But I think there are valid secondary ones, and that the specific edition, topic, community, etc, all play a role.

Maybe, maybe not.

But, there's additional perspective - today's news about Fantasy Grounds. They didn't tell us a darned thing about it, and today, *poof*, there is cool product out there.

Now, goodness knows how many ups and downs that project had, over time. Consider how we'd have found those rises and falls... well, a tad frustrating. Each time they said something, it'd set a new expectation, and we'd generally feel put out when those expectation changed - the general public doesn't recognize that plans are not written in stone, after all.

Compare that with just having happy news when it is released.

Which is better, for us and them?

 

[Mercurius]

@Umbran, well I think it depends upon the product and what and how you communicate. For instance, if WotC is releasing a Forgotten Realms setting book at GenCon, why not start talking about it? GenCon is only four months away - how about some hints of what they are planning? Do you think it would be better if they just brought the boxes of books to GenCon without any preliminary lead-up or previews? It is an intriguing idea, but there's a reason that companies start dropping hints a long time in advance, to gather momentum and excitement.

As for Fantasy Grounds, that seems the smart thing to do because virtual stuff is so glitchy and a lot can go wrong, more likely to have set-backs, etc. But with books, things are a bit more straightforward it makes more sense to me to have more of an open policy. I mean, I think if WotC is planning a major book release for GenCon, they probably know if they are on schedule right now or not.

EDIT: On the other hand, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of WotC just dropping a surprise product on us every now and again. But even then, they could say "surprises are in store!"

 

[Umbran]

As for Fantasy Grounds, that seems the smart thing to do because virtual stuff is so glitchy and a lot can go wrong, more likely to have set-backs, etc. But with books, things are a bit more straightforward it makes more sense to me to have more of an open policy. I mean, I think if WotC is planning a major book release for GenCon, they probably know if they are on schedule right now or not.

Yes, but if something goes wrong with that schedule, and the books are late? It has happened before.

The point is that communication is a two-edged sword, and you seem to be ignoring the back side of that blade. Each communication *sets expectations*. And fans react very poorly when expectations are then not met. With the way the messageboard communities work these days, missing an announced date might be a lot worse than having no announcement. In essence, communicating to us has historically proven to be risky, and if they've chosen to not do so, I can't really find fault with that choice.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

I'm loving this edition. Best I've ever played, and I started with the red box Basic and 1st edition AD&D.

 

[Mercurius]

Yes, but if something goes wrong with that schedule, and the books are late? It has happened before.

The point is that communication is a two-edged sword, and you seem to be ignoring the back side of that blade. Each communication *sets expectations*. And fans react very poorly when expectations are then not met. With the way the messageboard communities work these days, missing an announced date might be a lot worse than having no announcement. In essence, communicating to us has historically proven to be risky, and if they've chosen to not do so, I can't really find fault with that choice.

I'm not ignoring the "back side of that blade," but you seem to be saying that no communication is better than potentially risky or imperfect communication. There is nuance, here, Umbran - it isn't either/or - either no communication at all to avoid mistakes, or all-out communication like Facebook status updates (Mearls: "I'm taking the Forgotten Realms grey box into the bathroom with me, to scour for ideas for the 5E FR setting book while I sit on the john").

Again, SOME communication. The best we've gotten about some of these issues is very vague and no more than innuendo ("settings are cool").

To put all that another way, what I see is WotC over-compensating after being burned during the 3E and 4E years, especially with Gleemax, the digital tabletop, and Insider. Rather than say, "Let's be more careful in our communications" they said "Let's not communicate at all, or at least only vaguely."

 

[Minsc]

The only thing I don't like about 5e is crossbow abuse.

Ugh.

 

[Hussar]

I'm not ignoring the "back side of that blade," but you seem to be saying that no communication is better than potentially risky or imperfect communication. There is nuance, here, Umbran - it isn't either/or - either no communication at all to avoid mistakes, or all-out communication like Facebook status updates (Mearls: "I'm taking the Forgotten Realms grey box into the bathroom with me, to scour for ideas for the 5E FR setting book while I sit on the john").

Again, SOME communication. The best we've gotten about some of these issues is very vague and no more than innuendo ("settings are cool").

To put all that another way, what I see is WotC over-compensating after being burned during the 3E and 4E years, especially with Gleemax, the digital tabletop, and Insider. Rather than say, "Let's be more careful in our communications" they said "Let's not communicate at all, or at least only vaguely."

That's the problem though. If they are "careful" then they get accused of "market-speech" and "saying nothing with a lot of words". They absolutely cannot win here. No matter what they say, or how they say it, people will take the ball and run with it. We've got over a decade of the fandom doing exactly that every single time as evidence. Say too much and set expectations which turn around and bite them on the ass. Say too little and people run around screaming the sky is falling because no news means here is nothing in development.

It's totally not worth their time.

 

[Mercurius]

Maybe, @Hussar. But I refuse to believe that skillful communication is impossible. Non-problematic communication? Yes, that is impossible because someone is always going to mangle the message. but skillful communication that minimizes problems? Yes, it is possible.

And understand that I'm speaking as someone who has never been offended by anything WotC has ever said and generally don't get hot and bothered about this stuff. I'm speaking more out of intellectual curiosity.