D&D 5E [D&D 5e] Planescape- In Through the Out Door (Full)

[Unsung]

Question to the group, and before I roll: by the rules as written, pretty much all spells that grant a saving throw are subject to magic resistance; spells that require an attack roll, on the other hand, are not. This makes things roughly even, but seems a little weird in terms of what exactly is happening in-universe.

What I mean is, in previous editions, conjuration effects (like web or Melf's acid arrow) were not subject to magic/spell resistance, the idea being that although they were brought forth by magic, the created material was not, itself, magic. That no longer holds true in 5e, and while I can live with that, I wanted to broach the subject with you guys-- you're all casters of some stripe (however belatedly, in Shandrizar's case). Are you okay with the RAW, and if not, what might a useful house rule look like?

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

I'm fine with the rules as written.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

I prefer RAW for this game. Part of the point of my playing 5e this year is to examine the rules mechanics.

That said, that's only my preference. I will happily bend to group majority will on this.

 

[Pembinasa]

...That does seem REALLY weird, and both counterintuitive and inexplicable. Graydon had picked that spell explicitly because conjuring up a stack of entangling webs shouldn't be affected by 'magic resistance', though that can be forgiven by him coming from an earlier edition.

Admittedly, in my reading of the rules I didn't see the interpretation being cited, and would very much like to take a look at that. There's no intention of doubting or second-guessing the DM on this, but for my own peace of mind could I please be shown the relevant passage? I hate misunderstanding the rules we play by.

As to house rules, it might seem self-serving but I simply don't see how nonmagical effects (especially non-damaging effects) would invoke magical resistance. Resistant to being immobilized or being set on fire or having your mind forcibly altered, sure(although I personally think those should all be different forms of resistance); but how do you magically resist the existence of cobwebs? If you reshape the ground beneath the feet of someone, can they magically resist falling down ?

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

In the case of web, the spell creates a magical substance that vanishes when the spell expires. I can see a spell that reshapes the ground (an object that was already there and is therefore not magical) having full effect on a magic resistant critter, though, since the ground is the target of the spell, not the critter.

 

[Unsung]

5e tends to take a blanket approach to its rules. There's not really much left to interpretation:

Magic Resistance. The [yugoloth/death knight/tarrasque/various others] has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

That's it, the whole rule. It doesn't even get its own paragraph entry at the beginning of the book like regular damage resistance or darkvision. The thing is, bounded accuracy does tend to make this scale pretty well. A monster's saving throw proficiencies (or lack thereof) do tend to count for more, but if the save DC is high enough then a reroll isn't necessarily going to save them.

However, mechanical elegance aside, I can still sympathize with the point that resisting magic doesn't necessarily explain how an enemy can ignore a sticky web, grease slick, or for that matter the heat generated by a fireball.

Allowing conjuration (and/or evocation?) to bypass magic resistance could cut both ways, of course. It makes the effects more powerful, but the same used to be true for enemies as well. But at that point, the possibility of PCs gaining their own magic resistance, through items or spells, was a definite possibility.

It is possible to just ad hoc this sort of thing-- I'd tend to favour verisimilitude over rules in those cases, though, and I know that's not what everyone's comfortable with. So I thought I'd better bring it up.

 

[Pembinasa]

Except it has no magical properties, it's just cobwebs. Not magic cobwebs that animate and drag you inside them, in which case I would agree.

Similarly, based on these rules you could create a Wall of Stone and drop it on someone, and they'd get to resist rocks- but you conjure up a crossbow bolt and shoot them with it, no resistance at all.

I would prefer to favor verisimilitude as well, weird mechanics breaks the illusion for me- and I'm perfectly willing to take the possibility of having this coming back to bite me if it makes for a more realistic experience.

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

I'd rather go the other way - wrap the story around the rules quirks. But, I'm fine going with the majority on this.

 

[Unsung]

In the case of web, the spell creates a magical substance that vanishes when the spell expires. I can see a spell that reshapes the ground (an object that was already there and is therefore not magical) having full effect on a magic resistant critter, though, since the ground is the target of the spell, not the critter.

It *could* just be a matter of where the effects of the spell end and mundane reality begins anew. The magical fire is real enough to ignite dry tinder, but the magical resistance of a creature in some way corrodes the effects of the spell around them before it can reach them. Likewise, if the webs *are* magical, then perhaps they do partly cease to exist while the creature is stepping through them.

Magic resistance doesn't have to work the same way for all creatures, either. A demon, a creature of evil sustained by the power of belief in Planescape terms, ignores magical effects by virtue of only existing partway in this reality anyway. A death knight is probably plastered in runes and wards of the same kind which bind its soul to its undead husk. The tarrasque, meanwhile, is just so tough as to largely ignore magic in much the same way as anything else.

If it sounds like I'm advocating for both sides here, it's true, I am. I'm fine with either outcome, but I want to stick by whatever we decide.

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

In the same vein, a slaad could have everything magical sort of warp around it and snap back in to place when it leaves the area of effect.

A golem could mindlessly walk through it as if it weren't there.

And so on.