D&D and the rising pandemic

[FitzTheRuke]

It's weird that so many conspiracy theories come down to what capitalists do in the open. There is no need for a conspiracy there, people are just doing it.

Though often in these 'power grab/global dominance' conspiracies it is rooted in anti-Semitism whether the conspiracists know the history of their conspiracy or not.

I agree. Even the tendency to equate their loss of "freedom" to the current government being "nazis" (or at least "nazi-like", smacks of anti-Semetism to me. Like, we're not even close to that. I think if you can go there you show a fundamental lack of understanding of (or perhaps belief in?) the Holocaust.

I'm not saying that there's not unfavorable agendas at play or that the methods we are using to combat the pandemic are all, always, wholly altruistic... but still, the main goal here is to end the pandemic, not oppress people. It's not the same thing at all. Not even over the horizon.

 

[Ryujin]

I agree. Even the tendency to equate their loss of "freedom" to the current government being "nazis" (or at least "nazi-like", smacks of anti-Semetism to me. Like, we're not even close to that. I think if you can go there you show a fundamental lack of understanding of (or perhaps belief in?) the Holocaust.

I'm not saying that there's not unfavorable agendas at play or that the methods we are using to combat the pandemic are all, always, wholly altruistic... but still, the main goal here is to end the pandemic, not oppress people. It's not the same thing at all. Not even over the horizon.

There's a reason why Godwin's Law exists. Just saying

 

[FitzTheRuke]

There's a reason why Godwin's Law exists. Just saying

Yes. I suppose I count as having perpetrated the principle, even if I was only trying to counter the ridiculous analogy.

 

[Imaculata]

There's a reason why Godwin's Law exists. Just saying

Yeah, I consider it an example of that. When people no longer have solid arguments, they often invoke Godwin's Law, and at that point all discussion is over really.

 

[Ryujin]

Yeah, I consider it an example of that. When people no longer have solid arguments, they often invoke Godwin's Law, and at that point all discussion is over really.

Though remarking upon Godwin's Law does not, itself, Godwin a thread.

Some people just have to extend an arguement to absolute ridiculous levels, beyond any and all reason, in order to try and win the internets.

Not talking about you, @FitzTheRuke. Just speaking about the same people that you were. "Do you agree with Nazis?! Because if that's your stance on this, then you agree with Nazis!!!!" Except, of course, when the conversation is about actual Nazis.

 

[Rabulias]

To some folks, I think they think of Nazis like the "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld or "Grammar Nazis" correcting their writing. To them a Nazi = "a person who does not let me do what I want."

 

[Mirtek]

Though if it gets bad enough to get into actual triage, there's probably going to be some de-facto bias against the unvaccinated simply because the numbers tell you they're less likely to recover than those that are, though it may not be presented that way (it'll be cloaked in prognosis values and such, but its still going to lean against the unvaccinated because of the realities). I'm not sure to what degree its gotten down to full blown triage yet, though.

Only under equal circumstances. The data, at least in Germany, shows that the unvaccinated otherwise healthy 20-years old is still more likely to recover than the 65-years double vaccinated with a breakthrough infection.

And even under equal circumstances there may be no more differences. Being fully vaccinated massively reduces the risk of the 65-years old to develop a case so bad that he ends up in intensive care. But once he still got it so bad that he needs intensive care his chances may be about the same as the unvaccinated 65-years old in the bed next to him. That he might be the only fully vaccinated among 20 unvaccinated is a good statistic for vaccination in general, but unfortuntely no longer relevant for him personally.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Only under equal circumstances. The data, at least in Germany, shows that the unvaccinated otherwise healthy 20-years old is still more likely to recover than the 65-years double vaccinated with a breakthrough infection.

I suspect if you peel out the 65 year olds with other co-morbidities you'll find that's not true. At least it hasn't been in the studies I've seen account for it (its just that, unsurprisingly, 65 year olds are much more likely to have one or more co-morbidities).

And even under equal circumstances there may be no more differences. Being fully vaccinated massively reduces the risk of the 65-years old to develop a case so bad that he ends up in intensive care. But once he still got it so bad that he needs intensive care his chances may be about the same as the unvaccinated 65-years old in the bed next to him. That he might be the only fully vaccinated among 20 unvaccinated is a good statistic for vaccination in general, but unfortuntely no longer relevant for him personally.

Again, doesn't seem true in the casework I've seen; being vaccinated helps the whole way up the process, because it influences exactly how bad it'll get at every point in the line. Naturally, if you're in the ICU it may be the difference becomes subtle, but keep in mind that's not the first point triage is going to occur; in some places that's going to go all the way back to being hospitalized at all.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I spoke to a customer yesterday who works as a radiologist at a local hospital. He says that 100% of the current hospitalizations (at his hospital - he's not speaking for elsewhere but it illustrates a point) are people who are totally unvaccinated. They lost a 29 year old this week who had no known previous health issues. Sad.

He said vaccinated people are occasionally brought in, having caught it, but are usually fine enough to be sent home quickly.

That's one person's perspective for what it's worth.

 

[Zardnaar]

I want to go look up the updated stats on the extra occurrence of side effects of various magnitudes. (How many expected days of being bed ridden as a side effect is an extra 5% of protection from hospitalization worth? Is it worth the time out for a booster to avoid that? Is the entire discussion just feeding some segment of anti-vaxers?)

Also want to look up how the study controlled for who got which. Did some choose Pfizer due to side effect talk, for example.

I would have chosen Moderna if I had a choice but they went all in on Pfizer. Either way those two were my first picks.

Last two weeks we'e been hovering around 13-30 cases a day and woke up today to learn that they've found Covid outside Auckland.

I think this is week 5 of level 4 lockdown for Auckland. Apparently there's been more breaches this time around and lockdown fatifue is a thing.

Announcement in 8 hours or so.