D&D and the rising pandemic

[FitzTheRuke]

I just spent about an hour arguing with an anti-vax customer (I've known him for 25 years, as a customer, so I thought it was worth engaging... like a fool.) It was interesting, if futile. I learned the main difference between "us" and "them" (IMO):

They don't understand Hanlon's Razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

The main difference in our perspectives is that he thinks that people are malicious enough to organize on a global scale to use a (in his words) relatively minor outbreak a bid to seize power.

I think, sure, they'll probably use this pandemic to try what they can to make money/power grab/yadda yadda, but generally feebly and obviously, and not nefariously (and there's NO WAY, IMO that anyone could have created the pandemic for this purpose). There's just no way. People are too foolish to pull off something like that.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Conspiracy thinking in general always requires swallowing a degree of coordination and control that simultaneously assumes massive ability, massive malice, and a striking degree of pettiness all at once.

 

[billd91]

Conspiracy thinking in general always requires swallowing a degree of coordination and control that simultaneously assumes massive ability, massive malice, and a striking degree of pettiness all at once.

Sure, but is also soothes them in the sense that they feel someone or thing is in active control of the situation. Even though it‘s not them in charge, it makes the situation seem less insane and chaotic. Plus, they get to play the victim card so nothing is their fault.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I just spent about an hour arguing with an anti-vax customer (I've known him for 25 years, as a customer, so I thought it was worth engaging... like a fool.) It was interesting, if futile. I learned the main difference between "us" and "them" (IMO):

They don't understand Hanlon's Razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

The main difference in our perspectives is that he thinks that people are malicious enough to organize on a global scale to use a (in his words) relatively minor outbreak a bid to seize power.

I think, sure, they'll probably use this pandemic to try what they can to make money/power grab/yadda yadda, but generally feebly and obviously, and not nefariously (and there's NO WAY, IMO that anyone could have created the pandemic for this purpose). There's just no way. People are too foolish to pull off something like that.

It’s not that they can’t grasp Hanlon’s Razor. Many do- usually when their “side“ is being accused of something. There’s more going on.

A big part is projecting. There’s a lot of people thinking, “That’s what I would do (or have done) in ____________ situation, therefore, that is what THEY are doing.” Or to put it differently, they have seen what can be achieved with malice by “their guys”, so they assume Hanlon’s Razor does not apply or is simply not true more often than not. IOW, there’s a rejection of the Razor’s predictive value.

Dig deeper, and the same applies to Occam’s Razor. Using that tool shreds most conspiracy theories, but again, the Razor’s value is outright dismissed.

(Of course, Razors are tools, not proofs, so…)

There’s even some studies showing predispositions to certain ways of thought correlated to (not necessarily caused by) structural differences in the brains of conservatives and liberals.

Conservative and Liberal Brains Might Have Some Real Differences

Scanners try to watch the red-blue divide play out underneath the skull

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Maxperson]

A Kentucky court refused to direct a hospital to administer ivermectin to treat a Covid-infected man at the behest of his wife (a nurse of some kind). In the decision, the court took note of the law that prevents the admission of junk science into evidence. Similar laws exist in most US jurisdictions. (Each has its own standards for distinguishing junk science from the real deal, of course.)

She demanded a hospital treat her husband's covid-19 with ivermectin. A judge said no.

After her husband was infected with the coronavirus and entered an intensive care unit this month, Angela Underwood pushed the Louisville hospital that was treating him to administer ivermectin, the deworming drug some people have used to treat or prevent covid-19 in recent months. She sued...

www.yahoo.com

There was a similar case in Ohio where a judge reversed a prior court order that had instructed a hospital to administer that drug.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think here the smoking penalty in SC is just $25 per month as an insurance surcharge. Delta is $200/month for not having the COVID shot.

I wonder what the overlap is between those against universal health care and those against getting vaccinated is. (Not enough to want a response and derail the thread into politics though). Even so I'm not saying they should get that harsh of a punishment even if they're asking for it.

Just to be clear the insurance companies are charging you an extra 200 a month for no jab?

 

[Cadence]

Just to be clear the insurance companies are charging you an extra 200 a month for no jab?

In that case it is the airline charging it to their employees - but the airline is in the employees health insurance provider. (The company is self insured/self funded with a company hired to administer the insurance plan).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So data is starting to show up that there ARE real world differences in the long term efficacy of the various vaccines.

Big gap between Pfizer, Moderna vaccines seen for preventing COVID hospitalizations

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine does a significantly better job of preventing COVID-19 hospitalizations compared with Pfizer's shot.

www.yahoo.com

Personally, I had the Pfizer shot, so my risk will be slightly higher than for my Dad, who got the Moderna injection. OTOH, I’m not too concerned because 77% is better than some flu vaccines- late in the season, some can drop to under 50% efficacy,

 

[Cadence]

So data is starting to show up that there ARE real world differences in the long term efficacy of the various vaccines.

Big gap between Pfizer, Moderna vaccines seen for preventing COVID hospitalizations

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine does a significantly better job of preventing COVID-19 hospitalizations compared with Pfizer's shot.

www.yahoo.com

Personally, I had the Phizer shot, so my risk will be slightly higher than for my Dad, who got the Moderna injection. OTOH, I’m not too concerned because 77% is better than some flu vaccines- late in the season, some can drop to under 50% efficacy,

I want to go look up the updated stats on the extra occurrence of side effects of various magnitudes. (How many expected days of being bed ridden as a side effect is an extra 5% of protection from hospitalization worth? Is it worth the time out for a booster to avoid that? Is the entire discussion just feeding some segment of anti-vaxers?)

Also want to look up how the study controlled for who got which. Did some choose Pfizer due to side effect talk, for example.

 

[ad_hoc]

I just spent about an hour arguing with an anti-vax customer (I've known him for 25 years, as a customer, so I thought it was worth engaging... like a fool.) It was interesting, if futile. I learned the main difference between "us" and "them" (IMO):

They don't understand Hanlon's Razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

The main difference in our perspectives is that he thinks that people are malicious enough to organize on a global scale to use a (in his words) relatively minor outbreak a bid to seize power.

I think, sure, they'll probably use this pandemic to try what they can to make money/power grab/yadda yadda, but generally feebly and obviously, and not nefariously (and there's NO WAY, IMO that anyone could have created the pandemic for this purpose). There's just no way. People are too foolish to pull off something like that.

It's weird that so many conspiracy theories come down to what capitalists do in the open. There is no need for a conspiracy there, people are just doing it.

Though often in these 'power grab/global dominance' conspiracies it is rooted in anti-Semitism whether the conspiracists know the history of their conspiracy or not.