D&D and the rising pandemic

[Thomas Shey]

Lots of crops in California only exist because of bringing water into what would otherwise be desert.

Yeah, but there's some important issues of degree here; the two crops I mentioned require literal flooding of the growing area to work. That's on a whole different level; you should be growing those in places that get an excess of water.

 

[Rabulias]

So, let us be clear - the issue isn't just the southwest - it is the West, Southwest, and High Plains. Indeed, much of the lower half of the Mississippi is also under drought conditions! We are talking about nearly half the area of the country being in drought.

True, but the areas where agriculture and/or population is growing are more limited. Some of the locations on that map have historically been desert.

Also, the time for such a project was a decade ago. Now, no such project will complete in time to save the area from its behavior.

Probably 20 years ago, to allow for project overruns, and working on any unforeseen problems.

 

[Rabulias]

Yeah, but there's some important issues of degree here; the two crops I mentioned require literal flooding of the growing area to work. That's on a whole different level; you should be growing those in places that get an excess of water.

Yeah, California's wine industry may suffer some as well. It does not use as much as almonds, grazeland, or alfalfa, but it is in the top 10 agricultural uses of water in California, IIRC. And as the water supply dries up...

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, California's wine industry may suffer some as well. It does not use as much as almonds, grazeland, or alfalfa, but it is in the top 10 agricultural uses of water in California, IIRC. And as the water supply dries up...

Yeah, that's a little more unfortunate, because there are actually good reasons to grow grapes in California other than "we have cheap water" (which is pretty much the only reason rice is grown here) given certain soil and other conditions, but it just may become impractical.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This is one of the articles regarding some of the costs and engineering issues involved in diverting water from the Mississippi. The numbers cited, if accurate, would indicate to me (a non-engineer) that it would be prohibitively expensive for a long time.

As an engineer, here's how I look at the idea of pumping water from Mississippi to the West

As a nation, do we have the same appetite for large projects as we used to?

www.desertsun.com

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: California agriculture

There was an article in Bon Appetit a couple years ago that discussed the many issues- water/drought, labor, housing, etc.- involved in their (and thus, the USA in general) agribusinesses. Several farmers went on record as saying the USA was on the verge of having to either import its farm workforce or scale back farming in favor of relying more on imports if things keep going in the directions they are.

And there’s LOTS of reasons increasing food imports is untenable in the long term.

 

[Umbran]

True, but the areas where agriculture and/or population is growing are more limited.

At this point, even if there's no growth at all, there's going to be a water management catastrophe if behavior and use do not change. The areas feeding Lake Mead and Lake Powell have been in drought for twenty years - which starts seeming less like drought, and more like climatic shift (go figure). The issue is less about supporting growth now, and more about avoiding collapse.

Some of the locations on that map have historically been desert.

Yes, they are. Fancy that. Folks have set up large population centers with water needs for industry and agriculture and entertainment in the middle of a desert! Genius!

I don't now who here is old enough to remember, but back in the 80s, there was drought and famine in Africa - leading up to this famous bit of music history:


What we forget are the comedians and politicos who were railing about the efforts, with notes that "Well, they live in a freakin' desert! Move already!"

Shoe's on the other foot now, hey what?

 

[billd91]

Re: California agriculture

There was an article in Bon Appetit a couple years ago that discussed the many issues- water/drought, labor, housing, etc.- involved in their (and thus, the USA in general) agribusinesses. Several farmers went on record as saying the USA was on the verge of having to either import its farm workforce or scale back farming in favor of relying more on imports if things keep going in the directions they are.

And there’s LOTS of reasons increasing food imports is untenable in the long term.

In a sense, we already import much of our farm labor via undocumented immigrants. They're widely used in the dairy industry throughout the midwest because, among other things, they are in too precarious a position to complain about the hours or the pay.

And then there are other issues about the non-monetary expense of agribusiness - including the population health of pollinators like bees. They're shipped from all over the US in huge numbers to pollinate the almond orchards in Southern California where they are inundated with pesticides. No wonder our pollinator populations are flagging.

 

[Rabulias]

This is one of the articles regarding some of the costs and engineering issues involved in diverting water from the Mississippi. The numbers cited, if accurate, would indicate to me (a non-engineer) that it would be prohibitively expensive for a long time.

While I agree the project is inadvisable for many reasons, I don't know if waiting until the water is at or almost at sea level before pumping it westward is the best choice, even as a hypothetical engineering project.

 

[Umbran]

By the way, we all know that the agricultural and water-crisis discussions are a bit of a sideline from the nominal thread topic, right? So, if something real about the pandemic comes up, we should focus back in on that, okay, everyone?

Thanks much for your attention.