D&D Celebrity Satine Phoenix & Husband Jamison Stone Accused Of Abuse Towards Freelancers

D&D influencer Satine Phoenix, and her husband Jamison Stone, who run tabletop gaming company Apotheosis Studios, have been accused of abusive behavior towards freelancers and contracted workers. Satine Phoenix is a well-known D&D personality and creator, and was the D&D Community Manager for about a year back in 2018. Both she and Stone have appeared in many events and streaming shows, and...

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D&D influencer Satine Phoenix, and her husband Jamison Stone, who run tabletop gaming company Apotheosis Studios, have been accused of abusive behavior towards freelancers and contracted workers.

Satine Phoenix is a well-known D&D personality and creator, and was the D&D Community Manager for about a year back in 2018. Both she and Stone have appeared in many events and streaming shows, and have worked with WotC, Geek & Sundry, and other companies. Recently their Kickstarter campaign Sirens: Battle of the Bards raised over $300,000. At GaryCon, a US gaming convention, the couple held a public wedding.

sirens.jpg

Accusations were initially leveled last week against Stone by tattooist Chad Rowe, who tweeted about the abusive way in which Stone, as his client at the time, treated him. The artist was "insulted, berated, and talked down to as if I was a lesser person". Other reports started to roll in as people shared similar experiences, with people revealing how they had been bullied by them, and how the pair frequently portrayed themselves as 'better' than those they worked with. At the time of writing there have been many such reports including one from voice actress and designer Liisa Lee who was subjected to underhanded business practices by Phoenix and her then partner Ruty Rutenberg. Others indicated difficulties in getting paid for work done for Stone and Phoenix or their company.

Lysa Penrose reported on problematic interactions while Phoenix worked at WotC, who was the primary point of contact regarding a report of abuse. Penrose reports that Phoenix failed to pass on the reports of abuse, and continued to publicly associate with the abuser.

Jamison Stone has since resigned as CEO of Apotheosis Studios (though the pair do own the company) and issued a long apology which has been widely criticized. Phoenix released a statement about a week later. Screenshots leaked from a private channel indicate that they have adopted a strategy of shifting the blame onto Stone, so that Phoenix's public image remain intact, with Stone writing “I also am ensuring behind the scenes ... we shield Satine as much as physically possible from damage.”

D&D In A Castle, which is an event which hosts D&D games run by professional DMs in a weekend break in a castle, has dropped the pair from its lineup, as has Jasper's Game Day, an organization which works to prevent suicides. Origins Game Fair, at which the couple are celebrity guests, removed Stone from its guest list, but not Phoenix, stating that "staff assessed that there was no immediate risk of physical harm".

According to ComicBook.com. former collaborator of Phoenix, Ruty Rutenberg, is suing Phoenix, alleging misappropriation of $40,000 of stream network Maze Arcana's money.
 

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Steampunkette

A5e 3rd Party Publisher!
Supporter
Again I have mostly been responding to general posts about social media backlash that keep coming up in the discussion not this particular case and regularly explained where I can’t comment on issues specifically around this controversy. but I do think it is still fair for me to react when I see someone who looks like they are in serious distress in an apology video and question whether things are getting out of hand. Doesn’t mean if people were abused there shouldn’t be justice of people should be silent. But does mean we should be cautious if we think s person could be driven to harm themselves.
So you're not interested in the controversy, you're not interested in actually weighing the results of social media, and you think Satine might do a desperate outrage to herself, and you want to join in with other people pointlessly navel-gazing over whether social media is "Just" without actually, y'know, trying to determine whether the given situation is just.

Like... do you understand what I'm saying here or am I being particularly obtuse?

If you want to weigh whether social media is Just you have to determine the crimes and the punishment and compare the two.

Doesn't matter if it's -this- controversy or some -other- controversy. That's just the baseline minimum level of information required to accomplish the goal. You cannot determine proportionality without knowing both the action and the reaction. Right?

Navel-gazing philosophical hypothetical discussion of imagined actions and reactions probably has it's place somewhere... But in this thread, which is specifically about these people and the things they've done... just ain't it.

Though if you're sincerely worried Satine will hurt herself, feel free to just say that. It would probably be an appropriately weighed concern.
 

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Warpiglet-7

Lord of the depths
Social media has changed the equation.

When I hire people, I check references and do some digging. I look at a resume and look for gaps and odd patterns. People that burn bridges don’t do well.

Now we have a new game. Many uninvolved parties participate. Usually they are misinformed (not always). But in large numbers many people just go along with the wave.

And the other unsettling thing is a growing tendency to not just disassociate from people but to salt the fields—-go out of our way to make sure others also don’t give the person a chance. It happened before, but now with the internet you can rally many people and extend consequences that go beyond your own sphere.

Sometimes social capital is used to not just remove the person from one sphere or job but to apply lasting economic punishment. I am not just getting kicked out of one circle but other circles I have never interacted with.

Some will willingly go along with this assured that they are just upholding some shared ideal.

We say there is no “cancel culture” and maybe that is true but call this what you will. Sometimes it is probably deserved if it actually protects the public. Other times?

It is often is mob mentality but we’re the good mob! So why worry? Sure the occasional innocent person is on death row but you know, omelettes and broken eggs.

It’s all cool until you get the slip of paper with a black dot yourself for some perceived crime. It might not be big at first but once someone sounds the alarm your misdeeds or “insufficient apology” will only be evidence of your lack of worth and we can look for dirt that confirms our suspicions.

Its not going to stop; this is our culture now supported by social media and the internet. It’s here to stay. It’s just a gross process which brings out the worst in people.

From concerned onlookers to cabal of evil witches around a bubbling cauldron in 5 seconds flat.

I am not defending these people. I am not sure how Satine was relevant to D&D in the first place. I looked at one scenario and had questions. Then I realized I don’t consume her products so what’s the use?

I don’t think people should be free of consequences or reputations but the quick widespread intentional consequences are a thing that is here to stay—just going to keep drawing a slip and hope to not draw a black dot. I go out of my way to follow my values and the Golden rule but it’s no guarantee.
 

mythago

Hero
Surely you agree that there's a major, useful gap between "Restorative justice should be about the perpetrator" (which isn't what I said, but let's pretend it is) and "people who abused power should be condemned to call centre or warehouse jobs"? I don't think finding the latter too harsh is an extreme view.

Also note that "owing them reform" was the terms used by the person I was quoting. I wouldn't put it that way myself, I think it's rather that a justice system that does not hope for reform as much as possible is not one I'd condone.

I’m honestly not sure how to address the argument that the only alternative to being a D&D celebrity is a lifetime of working at a call center or warehouse job. Much less the
Surely you agree that there's a major, useful gap between "Restorative justice should be about the perpetrator" (which isn't what I said, but let's pretend it is) and "people who abused power should be condemned to call centre or warehouse jobs"? I don't think finding the latter too harsh is an extreme view.

Also note that "owing them reform" was the terms used by the person I was quoting. I wouldn't put it that way myself, I think it's rather that a justice system that does not hope for reform as much as possible is not one I'd condone.
 

vostygg

Explorer
Also: Your false dichotomy callout is disingenuous. If you have an attacker and a victim and you choose not to intervene you have chosen to side with the attacker by allowing the violence to continue. The attacker may continue to violate his victim's rights without opposition.

You didn't "Choose Neither" in that situation, you chose the aggressor.
Nonsense!

Jamison Stone raped a woman.
Really? What proof do you have of this? If it's true, then I hope he is tried in a court of law and sent to prison. If it's false, then how dare you promulgate falsehoods that could ruin a person's life without knowing any of the parties involved and with nothing but a set of one-sided social media posts to go by? Mob justice is all this is, and it sickens me. I don't even know why I bother. An insidious aspect of cancel culture is that the voices of moderation and proportionality get shouted down and bullied off the stage by the zealots with the torches and the pitchforks.
 
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Ondath

Hero
I’m honestly not sure how to address the argument that the only alternative to being a D&D celebrity is a lifetime of working at a call center or warehouse job.
Except this is literally what @Staffan said, arguing that they should not be able to hold any public-facing job that might give them any power over others. My comments were literally an answer to that absurd demand.

And I already said that I am absolutely in favour of S&J facing the consequences of their actions. It's likely they will never be able to earn a living as "D&D performers", and given the number of kind and hard working people they have pushed out of the industry, that seems fair. But it's a massive leap to go from that to saying that there should be no way for them to make amends and earn people's trust in the very, very long term and that they should never hold any public-facing job.

Does that make my stance clearer?

EDIT: Just to pre-emptively cover a counterpoint, I was talking about the mistreatment of freelancers and the gatekeeping they've done. Stone's rape is something way worse than all of this and requires a response of a much different kind, that goes without saying.
 

Steampunkette

A5e 3rd Party Publisher!
Supporter
Really? What proof do you have of this? If it's true, then I hope he is tried in a court of law and sent to prison. If it's false, then how dare you promulgate falsehoods that could ruin a person's life without knowing any of the parties involved and with nothing but a set of one-sided social media posts to go by? Mob justice is all this is, and it sickens me. I don't even know why I bother. An insidious aspect of cancel culture is that the voices of moderation and proportionality get shouted down and bullied off the stage by the zealots with the torches and the pitchforks.
If my eyes rolled -any- harder at your post they would've made it to England, skipping all the way across the Atlantic.

1) The victim came forward, explained it, outlined it, and has no reason to lie.
2) The idea that a rape allegation ruins a man's life is a funny legal fiction with no basis in reality.
3) "Cancel Culture" dog whistles are -actively- against the rules, here.
4) "Mob Justice" would involve dragging the man out of his home and lynching him. Social backlash is not remotely the same.

Troll harder.
 

mythago

Hero
Except this is literally what @Staffan said, arguing that they should not be able to hold any public-facing job that might give them any power over others. My comments were literally an answer to that absurd demand.

And I already said that I am absolutely in favour of S&J facing the consequences of their actions. It's likely they will never be able to earn a living as "D&D performers", and given the number of kind and hard working they might have pushed out of the industry, that seems fair. But it's a massive leap to go from that to saying that there should be no way for them to make amends and earn people's trust in the very, very long term and that they should never hold any public-facing job.

Does that make my stance clearer?

(Apologies for my garbled prior post. I don't know what happened on my phone there.)

So first, let's acknowledge that the person arguing that they should never hold any public-facing job is indulging in a ridiculous fantasy. Getting shunned by a hobby community is not going to destroy anyone's lifetime job prospects, much less "condemn" them to ditch-digging or call centers (and wow, we could have a whole nuther post on the whole 'menial jobs' thing). They aren't even 'condemned' to being kicked out of the TTRPG community. There are plenty of bad actors whose place in TTRPGs is just fine, thank you, and even a subset of the community that rallies around unapologetically crappy people. So no, nobody is going to be sentenced to work in a call center for life or banned from picking up a dice bag. Somebody posting about what "should" happen to them is not describing anything that will happen in real life.

But whether or not they get to make amends and earn "people's" trust is a question that needs to be shorn of entitlement language that centers their well-being. When you use language about them being "owed" another chance, or that they "deserve" to be welcomed back, whether or not you intend to, you're absolutely framing the issue where the bad actors are the protagonists and their redemption arc is a moral imperative.

I mention Restorative Justice because it addresses that exact question - how do we repair harm to a community, and how do we repair the harm that was done to victims while balancing the need to bring perpetrators back into society? It's difficult, complicated, thoughtful work. I have enormous respect for the people who do it even when I don't agree with them on many things. What it isn't is a claim that everyone "deserves" another chance, or that victims always owe forgiveness and redemption.

I don’t think people should be free of consequences or reputations but the quick widespread intentional consequences are a thing that is here to stay—just going to keep drawing a slip and hope to not draw a black dot. I go out of my way to follow my values and the Golden rule but it’s no guarantee.

The black dot slip only gets drawn by people who had their turn enthusiastically throwing stones at others. Not sure that was quite the analogy you thought you were going for.
 

mythago

Hero
I haven't defended them. I've gone out of my way to point out I can't really comment specially on the situation because I find the rabbit hole rather deep here.

There's a post explaining the situation and with multiple links right at the top of this thread. This isn't the Warren Commission Report, it's really not that hard to see what is going on. You're jumping on a whole thread about a specific situation and choosing to ignore that situation because it might get in the way of your Larger Argument about social media and bullying.
 

vostygg

Explorer
If my eyes rolled -any- harder at your post they would've made it to England, skipping all the way across the Atlantic.

1) The victim came forward, explained it, outlined it, and has no reason to lie.
Right! That's the same burden of proof they applied at Salem.
2) The idea that a rape allegation ruins a man's life is a funny legal fiction with no basis in reality.\
Absolute nonsense! Modern employers Google job applicants in this century.
3) "Cancel Culture" dog whistles are -actively- against the rules, here.
This is basically code for an unwillingness to entertain alternate viewpoints on what is supposed to be an open forum. It is exactly what I mean when I say that the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing lot are intolerant of alternate viewpoints.

4) "Mob Justice" would involve dragging the man out of his home and lynching him. Social backlash is not remotely the same.
You have no problem hyperbolizing the alleged crimes of the accused, but you strangely like to minimize the impact of social media on its victims.
 

Ondath

Hero
(Apologies for my garbled prior post. I don't know what happened on my phone there.)

So first, let's acknowledge that the person arguing that they should never hold any public-facing job is indulging in a ridiculous fantasy. Getting shunned by a hobby community is not going to destroy anyone's lifetime job prospects, much less "condemn" them to ditch-digging or call centers (and wow, we could have a whole nuther post on the whole 'menial jobs' thing). They aren't even 'condemned' to being kicked out of the TTRPG community. There are plenty of bad actors whose place in TTRPGs is just fine, thank you, and even a subset of the community that rallies around unapologetically crappy people. So no, nobody is going to be sentenced to work in a call center for life or banned from picking up a dice bag. Somebody posting about what "should" happen to them is not describing anything that will happen in real life.

But whether or not they get to make amends and earn "people's" trust is a question that needs to be shorn of entitlement language that centers their well-being. When you use language about them being "owed" another chance, or that they "deserve" to be welcomed back, whether or not you intend to, you're absolutely framing the issue where the bad actors are the protagonists and their redemption arc is a moral imperative.

I mention Restorative Justice because it addresses that exact question - how do we repair harm to a community, and how do we repair the harm that was done to victims while balancing the need to bring perpetrators back into society? It's difficult, complicated, thoughtful work. I have enormous respect for the people who do it even when I don't agree with them on many things. What it isn't is a claim that everyone "deserves" another chance, or that victims always owe forgiveness and redemption.



The black dot slip only gets drawn by people who had their turn enthusiastically throwing stones at others. Not sure that was quite the analogy you thought you were going for.
I think these arguments are absolutely fair! I didn't mean to use a language of entitlement, and I don't have anything against the points you've made here.

That said, I think I will unwatch this thread. At this point, the discussion seems to be getting rather heated without much to do on our end as the speculating public.
 

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