D&D General D&D doesn't need Evil

[Umbran]

Is this even a necessary component of necromancy in 5e? Do we imagine that a soul is at all involved in a zombie?

Depends on your cosmology. My recollection is that there are some published D&D cosmologies in which, if the body is raised as any form of undead, the soul cannot reach its resting place.

 

[Maxperson]

You've just described the legal system of any country.

Nope. The legal system of no country gets into that. They use metrics other than evil to determine punishments. Things like value of theft. Whether you used a gun in the crime. And so on. Evil doesn't play into it.

Hence, it's easy to quantify evil and good.

Then do it. Give me the numeric evil values of punching an old lady in the face, setting an empty building on fire, starting a forest fire, and killing 2 dogs. Oh, and since it's easy to quantify, you can provide the real world objective proofs.

Of course, variations apply:

No no. Objective is set in stone. Variations cannot apply or it's no longer objective. You can't say that stealing bread because you are hungry is objectively 3 evil in Rome, but only 1 evil in America. It has to be the same everywhere or the amount of evil is not something you can actually quantify objectively.

 

[MGibster]

While this is true, If you're playing some kind of cosmic objective good vs. evil and actions objectively matter campaign The DM has to pretend to be objective and the players have to accept (pretend) that he is. Probably doesn't hurt to lay out some written guidelines.

And it's not that easy to do. One of my players wanted to use Charm Person on merchants as a matter of routine in order to get better prices on merchandise. Is that evil? My answer is yes even if it's not a particularly egregious example of an evil act.

 

[Umbran]

No no. Objective is set in stone. Variations cannot apply or it's no longer objective.

Er... no?

The speed and acceleration of an object rolling down an inclined plane is objective. However, it does depend on the angle of the incline. Objective things can be the result of many variables.

 

[Lyxen]

And it's not that easy to do. One of my players wanted to use Charm Person on merchants as a matter of routine in order to get better prices on merchandise. Is that evil? My answer is yes even if it's not a particularly egregious example of an evil act.

For me, it's not evil (it does not really harm a sentient being), but it is chaotic (probably contrary to laws in a fantasy/magical society). It is therefore subjective as individuals, but when you are running your game, your feelings about it become the objective reality of the game world.

 

[Maxperson]

Er... no?

The speed and acceleration of an object rolling down an inclined plane is objective. However, it does depend on the angle of the incline. Objective things can be the result of many variables.

I'm talking about the things that are identical. If all the variables are the same, there should be no variation in the acceleration of that object. Stealing bread to feed your family in America is the same as stealing bread to feed your family in Austria. So long as all the variables are the same, the results should be the same if the evil in them is objective as claimed. The results will vary, though, because the evil levels of bread theft are not objective and legal systems do not measure it like @Bird Of Play claimed.

 

[Umbran]

I'm talking about the things that are identical. If all the variables are the same, there should be no variation in the acceleration of that object. Stealing bread to feed your family in America is the same as stealing bread to feed your family in Austria.

Stealing bread to feed your family in America is the same as stealing it in Austria.. only if America and Austria are the same, and they are clearly not. So, I reject your assertion.

Do go review The Good Place, as Chidi made it plain - the number of variables that might impact the morality of an action is large, and beyond the visibility of mere mortals.

 

[Bird Of Play]

Nope. The legal system of no country gets into that. They use metrics other than evil to determine punishments. Things like value of theft. Whether you used a gun in the crime. And so on. Evil doesn't play into it.

Then do it. Give me the numeric evil values of punching an old lady in the face, setting an empty building on fire, starting a forest fire, and killing 2 dogs. Oh, and since it's easy to quantify, you can provide the real world objective proofs.

No no. Objective is set in stone. Variations cannot apply or it's no longer objective. You can't say that stealing bread because you are hungry is objectively 3 evil in Rome, but only 1 evil in America. It has to be the same everywhere or the amount of evil is not something you can actually quantify objectively.

This is getting too philosophical, but it's interesting.

Again, it's easy to quantify evil, and it's the amount of damage or pain you've caused. If bread was precious in Rome, of course stealing it is 3 evil while if in America bread is a simple thing it's stealing it is 1 evil.

Of course, we're just human so we can't be always correct in our judgement. But we know enough to decide the alignment of a fictional character.

To be honest, I don't bother much with alignment for my NPCs. It just comes naturally through their actions once I've decided their past, motivation, morals and personality.

 

[BookTenTiger]

To be honest, I don't bother much with alignment for my NPCs. It just comes naturally through their actions once I've decided their past, motivation, morals and personality.

Hence why D&D doesn't need evil.

 

[Aldarc]

Stealing bread to feed your family in America is the same as stealing it in Austria.. only if America and Austria are the same, and they are clearly not. So, I reject your assertion.

As an American living in Austria who has traveled with Austrians to America, I can confirm that they are not the same.

I do find it odd that these would be the countries that are compared. It's also worth noting that legally Austria applies Civil Law whereas the United States applies Common Law.

Finally, stealing bread to feed your family is pretty much just the starting premise of Les Miserables.