D&D 5E D&D is Getting Unweildy

MGibster

Legend
So let's say I've never played D&D before, but after watching Stranger Things, checking out Critical Role, and talking to my friends, I've decided to take the plunge, purchase some books, and get to playing. I walk into my local Barnes & Noble and I see the holy trinity of D&D books, The Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual, and I go ahead and purchase all three because I'm a masochist and DMing seems like its right up my ally. (Alternatively I'm a sadist and I wish to make my players suffer.) I've got an introductory adventure I'd like to run, and I invite a few of my friends over to play, some of whom have been playing D&D for a few years. What shows up to my table? Well, I've got an Artificer and a Celestial Warlock. Okay, I guess. And don't the stats on the Halfling fighter seen a little wonky? Since when did they get a bonus to strength?

I don't really care if we call it a new edition or what, but I'd like the rules codified in one set of books. If we're going to go with Tasha's when it comes to race in the future, then put that in the PHB. This might not be a big deal to those of of us who have been playing for a while, but this kind of thing will frustrate new players.
 

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Retreater

Legend
It could be because I started with AD&D 2e, but the game has always been intimidating for new players. I had no idea how to play the game at all until some older teens showed me.
How many options did we have back then? Well, just looking at only the PHB, there were 6 races - some of which had subraces. Then there were numerous classes - some of which had specialty priests, wizards of specialty schools. And then weapons with Speed Factor, Weapon and Non-Weapon Proficiencies, THAC0, purchasing equipment down to your knife sheath and belt. Charts to record what every ability score meant in "real-life" and having them be not uniform at all.
All this without any livestreams, guides to show you the rules of the game, messageboards online to ask questions, adults who also played the game doing organized play events at local stores, and likely you had to hide it from angry people in your community - if you were even able to get a group together.
We're living in a golden age of the hobby. I am happy that young people are lucky to be here now than facing the junk I did to stick with D&D.
 

Its fine as long as they know how their bizarre PCs work! Few things are as annoying in games when someone says can i play a *half-aardvark/half bumble bee Black Hole Sorcerer....... and then they turn up and have no clue how it works.

*I realise in OneDND these half races are a thing of the past.
 


payn

Legend
The fact that the game isnt simple to grok is exactly what pulled me to it. I wanted to learn a nuanced and complex game to enjoy that experience. If I wanted something simple Id have stuck to Heroquest.

That given, I do see a need for easy to read and understand rulebooks. Options can be unwieldy, but I think modern design and digital offerings have made it easier than ever to keep up. So, I think the opposite is happening, D&D is getting more weildy than ever. 🤷‍♂️
 

Stormonu

Legend
So let's say I've never played D&D before, but after watching Stranger Things, checking out Critical Role, and talking to my friends, I've decided to take the plunge, purchase some books, and get to playing. I walk into my local Barnes & Noble and I see the holy trinity of D&D books, The Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual, and I go ahead and purchase all three because I'm a masochist and DMing seems like its right up my ally. (Alternatively I'm a sadist and I wish to make my players suffer.) I've got an introductory adventure I'd like to run, and I invite a few of my friends over to play, some of whom have been playing D&D for a few years. What shows up to my table? Well, I've got an Artificer and a Celestial Warlock. Okay, I guess. And don't the stats on the Halfling fighter seen a little wonky? Since when did they get a bonus to strength?

I don't really care if we call it a new edition or what, but I'd like the rules codified in one set of books. If we're going to go with Tasha's when it comes to race in the future, then put that in the PHB. This might not be a big deal to those of of us who have been playing for a while, but this kind of thing will frustrate new players.
Good luck with that, since printed books are a static thing.

And even using D&D Beyond, it's a case of "what version of the race are you using anyways? PHB 2014, PHB 2024, Volo's, Tasha's or Monsters of the Multiverse?"

You simply have to draw the line somewhere, or never print new books/material. That will not change, digital or physical.
 


wicked cool

Adventurer
they have been this since 1st edition. they are in the business of making money

i agree its frustrating even for new players. i showup at a flgs or convention. have my players handbook but this other person has a new book and added new spells (silvery barbs as an example). Same class but because they bought books 2&3 etc they have better options

i wouldnt mind every 3 years a revised players handbook (how about its the 2022 handbook which included all previous character options for the same core class's). or how about for core stuff heres a free download of changes to halflings etc.

i shouldnt have to go through 2-3 books to find a halfling ability. stop spreading these changes out over several books. got a wizard fine you may need players + 1 additional if you want

the sorcerer-someone posted on another thread (sorry cant remember who). basically the core sorcerer stinks but if you get book 2 its a lot better.

D&D like most of you isnt the only game i play. i follow a lot of skirmish games on facebook. The authors of these popular games contribute to discussion and often theres free content to fix obvious mistakes .
 


ReshiIRE

Adventurer
I feel a lot of this problem comes from there not being an online, officiall, non-pirate source of all player options and rules. It would make verifying and dealing with people bringing in things from books you do not own much easier - things become just a google or wiki source away.

At the same time, table culture plays a role; if players are on the ball when it comes to playing their characters, I think everything would work okay, even if you're not quite sure how things exactly line up.
 




jaycrockett

Explorer
I've got an introductory adventure I'd like to run, and I invite a few of my friends over to play, some of whom have been playing D&D for a few years.
It's unusual that experienced players would make the newbie be the DM, so yeah, I can see that would be tough.
D&D is getting more unwieldy, true, but it's still the least unwieldy edition so far.
 


beancounter

(I/Me/Mine)
They really should draw a line in the sand and reprint the core books with all of the changes to date.

Otherwise it will get unwieldy.

Remember when it used to be "PH plus 1" for options?...
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
We're late in 5E, and any edition gets unwieldly by 8 years in (if they last 8 years).

If I go to generate a new character in DNDBeyond right now, i have 85 Race options. That is NOT even counting ANY subraces. BUT a new person isn't a maniac like me who owns all that stuff in DNDBeyond.

You couldn't print a PHB with ALL the race, class, feats, and stuff that's come out. It would be the length of a dictionary.

The 2014 and 2022 Starter Sets both do a good job of on-roading brand new players and DMs. Hopefully more of them start with those than with the core books.

The 5E DMG isn't as newbie-friendly as it could be, but that's been a problem since 2014.

Re: the "Tasha's race rules need to be in the PHB", that pretty much will happen in 2024.
 
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Rabulias

the Incomparably Shrewd and Clever
I've got an introductory adventure I'd like to run, and I invite a few of my friends over to play, some of whom have been playing D&D for a few years. [emphasis mine]
While I take your point, in this hypothetical situation why didn't the budding DM consult with the friends he knew played D&D before buying anything? In the absence of such friends, hopefully, the would-be DM sees the D&D Starter Set on the shelves at the book store.

I think most groups that begin playing D&D grow from someone who already knows it (and has books), or they are all starting at the same level of knowledge/materials.
 

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