D&D General D&D is now Steampunk (poll)

[Paul Farquhar]

Maybe you aren't familiar with the term trappings? It means veneer or costume. That is, surface appearance of.

I’m familiar with the word. What I can’t see is anything in D&D that is identifiable as distinctively medieval.

 

[Scribe]

What I can’t see is anything in D&D that is identifiable as distinctively medieval.

Do you think if they could poll 1000 D&D fans, 'what does medieval look like' and then had a 1-5 (1 = nope, 5 = yep) poll, that a general idea could not be agreed upon?

Its Knights, Horses, Armour. Its Wizards in robes, and castles. Its houses with those wood frames on the outside.

You know it when you see it, and I would bet that the majority are on the same page.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In what way is the climate in "D&D" usually depicted as hot and dry? Seriously, where is that coming from?

Early modules, such as Keep on the Boarderlands, Village of Hommlet etc. it’s the same Wild West stuff that you find in Howard and Burroughs.

 

[Charlaquin]

See, I don't even think it's "dark ages" per se.

I think the key difference is that D&D went from something kinda-sorta-ish like realpolitik and logistics, to something kinda-sorta-ish like romanticism and adventure.

Folks who like realpolitik see romanticism as gaudy, garish, childish, a colorful but unserious profusion of silly nothings that never cohere--even when that description is blatantly biased, inaccurate, and unfair. Folks who like romanticism see realpolitik as dingy, drab, pretentious, a bleak and depressing profusion of self-congratulatory nothings that never cohere--even when that description is blatantly biased, inaccurate, and unfair. Folks who see HIGH ADVENTURE! as the core of the experience find logistics plodding, time-wasting, and just generally pointless busy-work, "filling out your taxes" and the like. Folks who see campaign logistics as the core of the experience find "high adventure" nonsensical, slapdash, time-wasting, and just generally pointless play-acting, "shouting your combos" and the like.

D&D has been offering something to both groups for a while now, but trying to pretend that the two have completely copacetic goals and interests. I obviously think that position is mistaken.

And here I am, thinking that campaign logistics are the most directly gamified aspect of the RPG and high adventure the most directly role play focused aspect of the RPG and that both are crucial to the experience.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Its Knights, Horses, Armour.

Things that have been around since the Iron Age and are still used now. (Bronze age for armour).

It’s Wizards in robes,

Pretty sure wizards never existed, and “cunning men” didn’t were robes and pointy hats.

and castles.

Several castles within 30 miles of were I live. At least one is still lived in by a king.

Its houses with those wood frames on the outside.

I know a few of those too, even closer. The pub were we meet to play D&D is one.

You know it when you see it, and I would bet that the majority are on the same page.

Most people don’t know it, because they know F all about history.

 

[Reynard]

I’m familiar with the word. What I can’t see is anything in D&D that is identifiable as distinctively medieval.

Now I feel like you are being a touch disingenuous.

 

[Scribe]

Most people don’t know it, because they know F all about history.

And yet, if you asked 1000 D&D players, they could pick it out.

I get it, this seems near and dear to your heart, and I look at some commentary here about other terms and I just cringe, but there is enough of a shared understanding that even if its not 'technically correct' we can get it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Early modules, such as Keep on the Boarderlands, Village of Hommlet etc. it’s the same Wild West stuff that you find in Howard and Burroughs.

Even if your examples are accurate, do you think that counts as "usually" in regards to D&D in general? I don't.

 

[Desdichado]

Let me be clear, then: you are wrong.

GARY had a focus on medievalism, but the D&D he actually produced was no more medieval than it was bronze age, renaissance or old west. It was full of contradictions and anachronisms because he and his fellow creators knew that they were making a fantasy game, based in large part on the most ahistorical of fantasy authors (Howard). So you can continue to assert that OD&D was "more medieval fantasy than sword and sorcery" but you would continue to be wrong.

Obviously I'm not, or you wouldn't have to engage is such ridiculous semantic hair-splitting on definitions to maintain your point. Even before you made it, it was pretty clear though. Anyone who starts discussion with pedantic nitpicking doesn't have a strong case for whatever it is that they're trying to say, and on some subconscious level (at least) they clearly know it. They're trying to dismiss the arguments against their point on a technicality, not on merits. But I said this was a tangent for another thread, so I have no intention of continuing my opinion on how sword & sorcery D&D really is in this thread.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Things that have been around since the Iron Age and are still used now. (Bronze age for armour).

Pretty sure wizards never existed, and “cunning men” didn’t were robes and pointy hats.

Several castles within 30 miles of were I live. At least one is still lived in by a king.

I know a few of those too, even closer. The pub were we meet to play D&D is one.

Most people don’t know it, because they know F all about history.

You know as well as I do that has nothing to do with trappings, and vibes.