D&D General D&D is now Steampunk (poll)

[Ralif Redhammer]

A steampunk character could fit into D&D just fine. But so could a Conan-esque barbarian, a snarky Locke Lamora-style rogue from not-Venice, or a dwarf straight out of Tolkien. At this point, I kinda think of D&D as being its own genre. To some extent, it's always been a mishmash of influences, but increasingly, I feel like its main influence is itself.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It seems that "medieval fantasy" no longer applies to D&D. It's more of a steampunk game, despite some of the art. Here's why:

• Default technology: the SRD offers PCs muskets, pistols, and airships.
• The Clarke rule: sufficiently advanced technology seems to be everywhere, given the number of classes and subclasses using magic.
• Species: the English word is post-middle ages, but Darwin made it pretty official in the 19th century.
• Cosmopolitan travel: it's not impossible to see a halfling and a dragonborn hanging out together, one of which could have arrived quickly, from distant lands, via Broom of Flying, Carpet of Flying, or the aforementioned airship. These travel modes rival, if not exceed, the speed of a locomotive engine.
• Industrial labor: cantrips, i.e. unlimited-use-spells, can do things like purify steel (acid splash), perform hard labor (mage hand), refrigerate (ray of frost), generate electricity (shocking grasp), and heat a boiler (fire bolt). In addition, rock gnomes can create, at will, "clockwork devices."
• Mass production: there's no mention of scarcity in the weapon, armor, or gear tables. (It does seem to apply loosely to magic items.)
• Apparatus of the Crab: enough said.

Agree? Disagree? Why isn't D&D now a steampunk game by default?

D&D has never been "medieval fantasy", so it can scarcely "no longer apply", I would argue.

I mean, what setting is that true in? Forgotten Realms varies from stone-age to near-industrial, but the "main areas" are basically 1500s/1600s in tech except for guns (and even those are like 1300s/1400s). Dragonlance is... I don't know what to call that mish-mash but medieval it ain't - that's Anaslon. Taladas is solidly Dark Ages, pre-medieval (apart from Baltch). Greyhawk varies like the FR, but perhaps more so. It does average closer to medieval I guess. Mystara is all over the place, including up to having nuclear reactors! Dark Sun is basically iron age but with a lot of neolithic tech. Spelljammer is "Age of Sail" more or less, 1600s/1700s. Eberron is quasi-1910s or so (minus guns). Planescape is timeless but has a 1700s/1800s vibe.

I could go on. D&D has never really been "medieval fantasy".

Of your points, none of them are really true/relevant in any setting except the Eberron.

Also you really underestimate how fast even pretty old locomotives are. A 2-person carpet of flying is 60ft/round. So 10ft/1 seconds.

My brother in Gond, that's 7mph. That's a moderate jog.

How slow do you think trains are? In the 1860s, say, on straight and level track, most trains hit 60mph, so nearly 10x as fast as a carpet of flying.

What about the one-person faster carpet you say? Okay, that' 80ft/round. So about what 9-10mph. Most people could out-sprint that without problems. Aladdin it ain't.

So no, they neither rival nor even come close to rivalling a locomotive. Even in the 1830s the average speed of a locomotive was 12-20mph, so they'd not even rival that unless we double their speed, and those were often capable of 40mph or even more in the right conditions.

 

[Laurefindel]

My unpopular take; D&D has only recently come out of being Medieval Fantasy with 5.5. D&D not being medieval fantasy is something new; about 5 years among the player base I’d say, and less than 2 years old based on published books.

« Medieval » doesn’t mean swords and knights, it means in-between antiquity and modernity. And yes, it always was anachronistic, satirical, and gothic beyond anything remotely historical, but I’d argue that the in-setting worlds of D&D were not yet modern (with the exception of Eberron*). With 5.5, cultures are now clearly distinct from geography or ethnicities, the inhabitants are more clearly conscious that their era has moved beyond the Dark Ages, that they can put a name on their own modernity, and believe in universal values that transcend species and nations.

At least, it’s the first edition where the PHB gives me this impression. Up to 2024, D&D was mostly medieval, and it had nothing to do with guns (which we can actually historically fit as a medieval technology) and random anachronisms.

* Eberron was a modern setting from the start, and not because of flying ships and magical trains, but because its inhabitants are aware of their own era. Even then, we could argue that the recent events at the end of the Last War was the catalyst that pushed Eberron in modernity. Eberron is a world in transition and transformation, because its population doesn’t want to be part of the « old » world of Eberron. But even in-setting, that’s something new.

 

[Azzy]

It seems that "medieval fantasy" no longer applies to D&D.

Did it really ever, though? Bronze plate and khopeshes existed side by side with full plate armor, bucklers, and atlatls.

It's more of a steampunk game, despite some of the art. Here's why:

• Default technology: the SRD offers PCs muskets, pistols, and airships.

Airships have been in Mystara and the FR (IIRC) since the TSR days. The 2e PHB had arquebuses (and the the FR had more firearms, including the blunderbuss—which is post-Renaissance).

• The Clarke rule: sufficiently advanced technology seems to be everywhere, given the number of classes and subclasses using magic.

Where's the steam-powered machines?

• Species: the English word is post-middle ages, but Darwin made it pretty official in the 19th century.

So?

• Cosmopolitan travel: it's not impossible to see a halfling and a dragonborn hanging out together, one of which could have arrived quickly, from distant lands, via Broom of Flying, Carpet of Flying, or the aforementioned airship. These travel modes rival, if not exceed, the speed of a locomotive engine.

Nothing new here.

• Industrial labor: cantrips, i.e. unlimited-use-spells, can do things like purify steel (acid splash), perform hard labor (mage hand), refrigerate (ray of frost), generate electricity (shocking grasp), and heat a boiler (fire bolt). In addition, rock gnomes can create, at will, "clockwork devices."

Where's the the steam-powered machinery?

• Mass production: there's no mention of scarcity in the weapon, armor, or gear tables. (It does seem to apply loosely to magic items.)

I don't recall scarcity of equipment being mentioned in 1e, 2e, or Basic.

• Apparatus of the Crab: enough said.

Do you mean the Apparatus of Kwalish, because that's been around since 1e.

Agree? Disagree? Why isn't D&D now a steampunk game by default?

 

[Charlaquin]

How many words are we going to add to the suffix -punk to before the concept loses all meaning? Are we already there?

We’ve been there for many years. Most “punkpunk” subgenres really have nothing to do with punk, other than the fact that they developed out of cyberpunk, which was called that because it was, in fact, punk. Some punkpunk works are genuinely punk of course, but mostly the term gets applied purely because of aesthetic any more, and not even accurately much of the time.

 

[Charlaquin]

D&D isn't Victorian? Tell that to this guy's handlebar moustache:

https://cdn.media.amplience.net/i/wizardsprod/players-handbook-2024-product-07?w=1920&fmt=auto

Is that an Art Nouveau buckle I see? Anyway, D&D might not be explicitly steampunk, but it's a whole lot closer to that than its Lord of the Rings roots.

Lord of the Rings is one very specific work of fiction; steampunk is an entire genre. You might as well say that Aquaman is closer to Southern Gothic than it is to The Little Mermaid. It’s just a meaningless comparison.

 

[Burnside]

• Species: the English word is post-middle ages, but Darwin made it pretty official in the 19th century.

I don't understand why people make an issue of this one. Why is this assumed to be an in-game term? It's a rules term. People aren't saying "Character Class", "Background", "Feat", or "Ability Scores" in-game. Why are we assuming that everyone in the fiction is suddenly saying "Species"?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

How many words are we going to add to the suffix -punk to before the concept loses all meaning? Are we already there?

It doesn't when applied to certain music genres, but ironically enough adding the -core suffix might cause whatever music genre it's describing to lose all meaning.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah Solarpunk and Hopepunk are the two big offenders, at least earlier variations could lean in to the dystopian, anti-establisment vibe of "punk" aesthetic - solarpunk takes it to utopianism abd a complete inversion of the Punk label

Solarpunk is probably the most genuinely punk of the punkpunks since cyberpunk. Punk doesn’t mean pessimistic, it means anti-authoritarian and critical of mainstream society. Solarpunk is absolutely that, and its optimism is a part of what makes it punk, because mainstream society is giving into authoritarianism out of an overwhelming sense of pessimism. It is, however, a new wave of punk, critiquing postmodern sentiment in the same way the previous wave critiqued the then-dominant modernist sentiment. We are post-postmodern now.

 

[Reynard]

Solarpunk is probably the most genuinely punk of the punkpunks since cyberpunk. Punk doesn’t mean pessimistic, it means anti-authoritarian and critical of mainstream society. Solarpunk is absolutely that, and its optimism is a part of what makes it punk, because mainstream society is giving into authoritarianism out of an overwhelming sense of pessimism. It is, however, a new wave of punk, critiquing postmodern sentiment in the same way the previous wave critiqued the then-dominant modernist sentiment. We are post-postmodern now.

Superman as punk because it is about hope is a real thing right now.