D&D General D&D: Literally Don't Understand This

[FitzTheRuke]

Eberron especially is far more modernistic in it's influence (the pulp and noir stories of the early 20th century). Likewise, Ravenloft has always felt far more Victorian than Medieval (mostly due to the source material). I would say the only settings in really think feel medieval are Dragonlance and Greyhawk (and that's a stretch considering Myrlund and his six shooters).

I agree. I hope that it didn't look like I was suggesting that Eberron was medieval.

I meant that THIS story isn't even on any of THOSE worlds - it's its own setting!

My point being, in that setting, apparently there exists high-heeled shoes. It's not much of a stretch.

It's fine if some don't like it, of course! But it's not like it doesn't make any sense.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'm the complete opposite. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess!

Well, also, part of it is that I don't take gaming anywhere near as "seriously" as I did back when that Axe was drawn. It truly harmed my ability to take 3e even remotely seriously. The spiked chain (the way it was drawn, not its existence) was almost as bad.

Now, a setting that has dresses and high-heels, I wouldn't make up myself, but if I ran that adventure from Radiant Citadel, using the setting established in it? I think I'd run it as-is.

Ultimately, if I wrote it myself it would have neither of those things.

 

[Tonguez]

D&D has absolutely lost it's medieval fashion sense (so much as it ever had it) but the trend towards "faux medieval modernism" has been a part of fantasy since the 90s. Basically, modern audiences find breeches and stocks comical. I remember there was a small amount of outrage when Aragon was revealed in photos for Fellowship and people complaining they dressed him in a duster like a cowboy!

But it's a fight modern fantasy has lost. Even something as "close" to realistic as Game of Thrones is horribly anachronistic in it's approach to costumes. And as fantasy has moved away from medievalism towards wider places and times, it's not surprising that more and more modernistic.

Theres a difference I think between pre-modern (ie before the 18th Century rather than actual Medieval) costume which DnD was based in and the current trend of 'anything goes' right up to contemporary (yet strangely 1980s leaning) styles. It probably started with the whole Steampunk aesthetic making Victorian era fashion cool, and then people layering on cowboys, Edwardian and later 19th century fashions - the cut of which hasnt really changed much.

Case in point the modern tutu was first used in the 1830s the feathery kind worn by the illustrated Diva even later. The image has pre-20s vibe - does anyone know if the adventure itself leans that way?

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Real armor doesn't look like what Red Sonja wears, either.



Sorry to tell you this, Lakesidefantasy, but anachronistic, ahistorical armor and clothing is as old as D&D. You are 50 years too late with that complaint.

And, if our world has had some form of elevated shoes across multiple cultures for over a millennium, a higher heel in a fantasy culture should not be an issue for us.



The original context is a Mardi Gras style parade in a fantasy setting, iirc. This proximal context is one bit of pop culture (D&D) giving a nod to a larger bit of pop culture (Taylor Swift). Neither seems particularly nonsensical.

C'mon Umbran, first you make an historical based argument--that didn't work--so now you're making an ahistorical based argument.

Yes, the shoes are anachronistic. But, the entire game is ahistorical, so nothing in it is anachronistic. We don't need 1,000 years of elevated shoe history to justify the presence of stiletto heels in Dungeons& Dragons. Indeed, we could have stop lights, pay phones and garbage trucks.

 

[Scribe]

OK but a chainmail bikini is still made out of chainmail, which is a medieval thing. A fantasy axe is still an axe, which is something people fought with in the Middle Ages.

It's not like Red Sonja is depicted wearing a bikini made of stretchy swimsuit material. Nor is Conan depicted wielding a gas-powered chainsaw or a machine gun.



For me, it's not just the shoes. It's the whole aesthetic. D&D is just becoming "too modern" in general for my tastes. I can accept fantastical elements as long as they at least feel like they could have been a thing in the Middle Ages / Renaissance eras of our history.

I'm OK with having full plate armor but not guns, and I've never been a fan of mixing 17th/18th century Age of Sail pirates and sailing ships into my medievalesque D&D either. (Let's not get started on including futuristic spaceships and laser guns and stuff. No thanks!)

Plonking your typical D&D adventuring party with their swords, bows, and chainmail into a setting that looks like this just doesn't work for me:

Looking at that art, my mind goes somewhere between 1860 and 1930, and that's just not a time period that I would equate with D&D specifically. I can't envision a guy in plate armor with a sword and shield walking up to the door of that farmhouse.

Yeah, I didn't get that book, that's just not D&D to me by any definition.

 

[Chaltab]

You know, going back to the original post, you could probably find a random illustration from an adventure from any era of the game and just as easily have people saying "What does this have to do with D&D?"

Heck, Barrier Peaks had robots. D&D has always contained multitudes.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I tell ya, when it comes to what I can handle in D&D, I'll take someone in a fantasy setting using a high heel as a weapon over anyone using this: (Talk about immersion-killing!)

View attachment 414424

I agree. It's stuff like this that makes me long for Daniel Horne. His heroes were usually wielding acres and swords that were believable.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Sir! I have it on the highest authority that this is QUALITY Appendix N inspirational material, sir!

Forgive me sir. I don't mean to disparage a Great Master, such is Boris, but he is more of a Rembrandt than a Michelangelo.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Does anyone know if the adventure itself leans that way?

Here's the basic description of the setting:

Zinda is a city of spiraling marble towers and turrets, of universities and guildhalls, and of specialty shops lining paved streets. Far below the balconies, the Court of Flowers and the pier ring with the merry laughter and the songs of laborers. Year round, Zinda’s plazas and parlors are full of academics, merchants, and pilgrims. But for ten days in the summer, the March of Vice draws even larger crowds as the city celebrates the local wine trade—specifically, the jeli wine that has made Zinda the wealthiest city in the land. Zindanese citizens garb themselves in brightly colored costumes and feathered headdresses and indulge in feasting, song, and dance.

After its recent years of prosperity, a cloud has settled over the city. Political dissidents are rumored to disappear from their beds as the Silent Verse, the enforcers of the ruling Kings of Coin, stalk the streets. The newest member of the Kings of Coin, Madame Samira Arah, grows restless with ambition and regularly hires mercenaries and spies to investigate her rivals’ secrets. The Bloodletters laborers’ union opposes the leadership of the aristocracy at every turn. And beneath it all, the dire secret on which Zinda’s prosperity was built waits to be exposed.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's the high-heeled shoe that turns me off. This and the TNT plunger detonators, the museum cafes, the heat metal hot plates. Things are so modern in D&D that I think we could add stoplights, payphones, and garbage trucks to Waterdeep and very few people would make note of it.

Journeys through the Radiant Citadel doesn't take place in Waterdeep or the Forgotten Realms at all (although there are conversion notes). At least one of the locations is a techno-magical city similar to Sharn.

Tastes in fantasy have changed since 1974. If you aren't into the techno-magical stuff, there's still plenty of traditional settings. WotC is making the World of Greyhawk back into the organized play setting, for instance.