D&D General D&D memes thread discussion…

[Oofta]

I'm not really talking about what the character is trained to do, or what they're specialized in. I'm just saying that if you're about to go on a stealth mission, maybe change into some armor that doesn't give you disadvantage on stealth.

I know, I know, that's a super-hot take. Somehow.

I went through every campaign using my master subscription currently and out of 28 PCs, 18% have dex of 10 or less. I have no idea how common this is of course but it's been pretty standard for every PC in heavy armor I've ever played with.

As an example the paladin I'm currently playing would go from an 18 AC to a 13 AC. Changing into breastplate increases my chance of getting hit by 25% when I'm already taking the brunt of the attacks since everyone else is always hiding behind me.

Meanwhile my stealth is a -1 so I would still probably fail checks anyway. I also need to spend an extra 400 GP on a suit of armor I'll use once in a blue moon. All because I don't want to have yet another dex build.

It's not as simple as "just put on different armor".

 

[CleverNickName]

I reject the notion that you only have two choices: either "another Dex build" or "forever roll stealth at disadvantage."

 

[Oofta]

I reject the notion that you only have two choices: either "another Dex build" or "forever roll stealth at disadvantage."

Of course there are other choices. Don't roll at disadvantage even though the odds of success are still minimal while taking a significant penalty and spending a decent chunk of gold for equipment the PC will rarely use.

I don't know what the dynamics of your group is. I'm just saying that I would be hesitant to do it because my PC is going to fail 90% of the time anyway and reducing that chance to 85% isn't always justified.

 

[Voadam]

Of course there are other choices. Don't roll at disadvantage even though the odds of success are still minimal while taking a significant penalty and spending a decent chunk of gold for equipment the PC will rarely use.

I don't know what the dynamics of your group is. I'm just saying that I would be hesitant to do it because my PC is going to fail 90% of the time anyway and reducing that chance to 85% isn't always justified.

With a -1 you are only going to fail a DC 15 stealth check 75% of the time.

With disadvantage that goes from one out of four chance of success to only one out of sixteen though.

And if you got advantage from something like enhance ability the plate mail would go to one out of four success for negating the disadvantage while the breastplate would go to about fifty fifty for advantage.

So if you add on advantage it can be a significant shift in the odds to something with a not terribly horrible chance of success.

I have never played a 5e character with a second suit of armor though. My vow of glory paladin was eventually rich enough to afford a second suit once he became a lord, but it is not something that ever came up and it was only after having gotten magical plate armor he did not want to give up.

 

[Oofta]

With a -1 you are only going to fail a DC 15 stealth check 75% of the time.

With disadvantage that goes from one out of four chance of success to only one out of sixteen though.

And if you got advantage from something like enhance ability the plate mail would go to one out of four success for negating the disadvantage while the breastplate would go to about fifty fifty for advantage.

So if you add on advantage it can be a significant shift in the odds to something with a not terribly horrible chance of success.

I have never played a 5e character with a second suit of armor though. My vow of glory paladin was eventually rich enough to afford a second suit once he became a lord, but it is not something that ever came up and it was only after having gotten magical plate armor he did not want to give up.

Chance of success depend on the target DC and how often you need to make a check. I'm assuming multiple checks and variable target DC. Also depends on if the DM is using group checks or not. If this came up on a regular basis, depending on campaign and availability I'd upgrade to mithral plate. It removes the stealth penalty.

 

[Voadam]

Chance of success depend on the target DC and how often you need to make a check. I'm assuming multiple checks and variable target DC. Also depends on if the DM is using group checks or not. If this came up on a regular basis, depending on campaign and availability I'd upgrade to mithral plate. It removes the stealth penalty.

I was assuming in general a DC 15 - moderate. If it is 20 hard then the disadvantage does not matter, the -1 will never succeed no matter what armor they wear or don't or whether something gives them advantage or not.

If it is an easy stealth DC 10 then -1 gives a fifty fifty chance, one quarter success on disadvantage, 3/4 success on advantage. Advantage and disadvantage have significant 25% swing impacts.

If it is multiple checks then the -1 character is pretty much likely to fail but with a chance if they only have easy or very targets, ditch armor, get advantage, and does not have to roll too many times. If it is any harder they likely fail.

 

[Oofta]

I was assuming in general a DC 15 - moderate. If it is 20 hard then the disadvantage does not matter, the -1 will never succeed no matter what armor they wear or don't or whether something gives them advantage or not.

If it is an easy stealth DC 10 then -1 gives a fifty fifty chance, one quarter success on disadvantage, 3/4 success on advantage. Advantage and disadvantage have significant 25% swing impacts.

If it is multiple checks then the -1 character is pretty much likely to fail but with a chance if they only have easy or very targets, ditch armor, get advantage, and does not have to roll too many times. If it is any harder they likely fail.

What can I say, if you have a crap stealth and need to make more than a handful of checks odds are you're going to fail anyway. But if you're going to assume that the PC can have all sorts of spells cast on them then why not just assume they could have the wizard cast floating disk that the tank just sits on (so they're not actually moving) while having also pass without trace on the group? Heck just make him invisible to boot!

In all seriousness if I go into a campaign and we all agree when building characters that we're going to focus on stealth on a regular basis, then I'll build a PC that is at least decent at stealth. If that's not an assumption, then no I don't want to nerf my PC on a regular basis.

 

[Voadam]

What can I say, if you have a crap stealth and need to make more than a handful of checks odds are you're going to fail anyway. But if you're going to assume that the PC can have all sorts of spells cast on them then why not just assume they could have the wizard cast floating disk that the tank just sits on (so they're not actually moving) while having also pass without trace on the group? Heck just make him invisible to boot!

In all seriousness if I go into a campaign and we all agree when building characters that we're going to focus on stealth on a regular basis, then I'll build a PC that is at least decent at stealth. If that's not an assumption, then no I don't want to nerf my PC on a regular basis.

The group I DM often buddy up on skills to give one person advantage on skill checks, or use enhance ability (8th level group, three party members can cast it) when they expect to be facing specific skills. Enhance ability dex on the plate mail cleric or another PC for the initial stealthing into a compound has come up before. He did not give up his plate mail though.

I can't remember where the group checks rules are but my memory is that you want more of the party to succeed than fail for a group success. In that case pushing your discretionary advantages to the marginal PCs and leaving the terrible to just be one really likely fail instead of less-terrible-but-still-likely to fail is often a good mathematical strategy I believe.

 

[Voadam]

In all seriousness if I go into a campaign and we all agree when building characters that we're going to focus on stealth on a regular basis, then I'll build a PC that is at least decent at stealth. If that's not an assumption, then no I don't want to nerf my PC on a regular basis.

Yeah, sure if you are doing stealth team who plans to stealth a lot then don't make a 5e low dex character in heavy armor.

But the original meme picture was just asking for a stealth check from everybody and the pictures are them in the woods. It could just be the party is traveling in the woods when a really big green dragon flies overhead and everybody says "We hide, stay quiet, and do nothing to draw its attention."

That situation came up with that party response (possibly stronger language was used ) in a 1e game I ran when I rolled a green dragon wilderness encounter result with a 3rd(?) level group.

 

[Oofta]

The group I DM often buddy up on skills to give one person advantage on skill checks, or use enhance ability (8th level group, three party members can cast it) when they expect to be facing specific skills. Enhance ability dex on the plate mail cleric or another PC for the initial stealthing into a compound has come up before. He did not give up his plate mail though.

I can't remember where the group checks rules are but my memory is that you want more of the party to succeed than fail for a group success. In that case pushing your discretionary advantages to the marginal PCs and leaving the terrible to just be one really likely fail instead of less-terrible-but-still-likely to fail is often a good mathematical strategy I believe.

The basics of the group check are the more succeed than fail. I use it sometimes because it doesn't penalize the guys in heavy armor as much.