I react so negatively to rolling for ability scores (and hit dice for the same reason) that its hard to even summarize.
Its like people who drive 45 miles per hour on a 65 mile per hour interstate, for no reason except that they feel like it. Their decisions affect other people in a small but negative way. They, for trivial reasons, have chosen to make other people's lives just a tiny bit worse. The sheer banality of it makes it a moral issue.
WOTC is choosing to make the lives of children worse for almost no reason. Adults who have been gaming for a while will know to choose the ability score generation system that they like the most. But having rolling for ability scores be the "core" method makes people say the game "feels like D&D," so rolling is listed as the primary method.
That means it will be the method used by new, younger players. They'll roll ability scores, invariably some characters will be way better than others due to these die rolls, and someone's first character, the one with a ridiculous name and corny abilities that they believe to be TOTALLY AWESOME because that's what you're like at age 12... will be an utter bust. Because of this. A child life will be, in a small but noticeable way, worse. Thanks.
I guess the reaction, as I understand it, is that this expectation is very specific, usually arises from people who've played a while, and is not an attitude that the rules need to go out of their way to nurture. It also seems like a grave misunderstanding of kids (I think most of ENW is a long, long way from childhood), who are very resilient and open-minded and are unlikely to complain that their character is not good enough even if this is actually true.If I've understood [MENTION=40961]Cadfan[/MENTION] right, he's envisaging a kid wanting to play the game in "heroic" style - your PC is your avatar in an exploration of a heroic fantasy world - being stuck with a "Gygaxian" stat generation method: PCs are essentially disposable, and you go through a stable of them until you get one that survives (perhaps because it got lucky on stat rolls).
That's not about learning the virtues of adversity (and I question whether games are even the place to learn this). It's about the game not being suited to deliver what the kid expects from it.
If I've understood [MENTION=40961]Cadfan[/MENTION] right, he's envisaging a kid wanting to play the game in "heroic" style - your PC is your avatar in an exploration of a heroic fantasy world - being stuck with a "Gygaxian" stat generation method: PCs are essentially disposable, and you go through a stable of them until you get one that survives (perhaps because it got lucky on stat rolls).
That's not about learning the virtues of adversity (and I question whether games are even the place to learn this). It's about the game not being suited to deliver what the kid expects from it.
The prevalence of low stats in the Gygax era has been greatly exaggerated. Take a look at the pregens included in the classic modules -- I just took a gander at "Slave Pits of the Undercity" where 18's abound, and the lowest CON is 15 -- and you'll find a much different set of practical expectations re: character stats.... being stuck with a "Gygaxian" stat generation method: PCs are essentially disposable, and you go through a stable of them until you get one that survives (perhaps because it got lucky on stat rolls).
My initial thoughts were fro my 7 year old, who played a PF Basic Box Wizard and hated that he was just a crossbowman, and not a good one at that! Now you can still contribute, like 4E, once your dailies are gone or you do not wish to use them.
Yes. Often these PCs have decent items too!The prevalence of low stats in the Gygax era has been greatly exaggerated. Take a look at the pregens included in the classic modules -- I just took a gander at "Slave Pits of the Undercity" where 18's abound, and the lowest CON is 15 -- and you'll find a much different set of practical expectations re: character stats.
Yes. Often these PCs have decent items too!
But they clearly weren't randomly generated. Which is why the inclusion of random generation rules strikes me as odd.
I know it doesn't characterise the whole game but it was my initial impression (as in my first one) as thread title.I don't want to go too far off-topic, but I don't think the wizard in my PF BB games ever used a crossbow. Depending on the school they chose at character creation there were several options. And even Ray of Frost as a ranged touch attack for 1d3 worked in a pinch.
I am sure everyone had different play experiences, but not sure that single play experience characterizes the whole game.
Because 1d3 for Ray of Frost vs 1d8 for Crossbow is a no brainer. Move to reload, sure, but you stay out of the melee as a Wizard. The to hit chance is the same. If the Ray of Frost did something else, like this play test version, or more damage (d6 and no reload) it might be worthwhile. But even my 7 (was then 6) year old knew that ray of frost was little use the majority of the time.Just thought I would let you know that "cantrips" in Pathfinder are at will.
Not sure why anyone needs to switch to a crossbow when you have unlimited cantrips.
Because 1d3 for Ray of Frost vs 1d8 for Crossbow is a no brainer. Move to reload, sure, but you stay out of the melee as a Wizard. The to hit chance is the same. If the Ray of Frost did something else, like this play test version, or more damage (d6 and no reload) it might be worthwhile. But even my 7 (was then 6) year old knew that ray of frost was little use the majority of the time.
EDIT Tho we may have mucked up 'cos the character sheet says ranged attack vs touch which may have been over looked LOL
.But what I think is the most disappointing is how terrible the editing is. Some terms where changed in some places, but not in others. XP for monsters seem completely wrong and it never tells what an elite monster is. With armor we have identical banded and splint armor, and so on. That's really awful.
Leaving aside the other issues in your post: The overall power level of the game is a separate concern from inter-character balance. The former is a matter of what power level makes for a fun game, the latter is a matter of what fairness makes for a fun game.