D&D 5E D&D Races: Evolution, Fantasy Stereotypes & Escapism

[DarkMantle]

What if you want to escape stereotypes and justifying bad actions by saying 'it's fiction'?

I think of a lot of the changes in fantasy/sci-fi recently have been a shift away from good-vs-evil classic fantasy.

So if you're talking about a fantasy world that is devoid of stereotypes, then isn't that continuing this trend of (re)imagining what escapism looks like in fantasy?

 

[Yora]

There is a collective culture around this, and a personal. For example,

I am the exact opposite. I use my fantasy to examine my real life burdens. I double down, I dig in, I escape by going deeper. Perhaps Im unique in this, but I dont think this generalization is as universal as it may appear.

I find the whole idea of escapism very strange.
And even if it's an actual thing, why would people immerse themselves in worlds of brutal violence and senseless killing to relax and distract themselves from their own daily life.
The wish fulfillment that I see catered to with "kill the faceless hordes of evil" is getting away with whatever you want without having to justify your actions. Which does not seem healthy.

Mostly, I see people perceiving the appeal of heroic fantasy fiction in general an RPGs in particular to see great wrongs being put right successfully. Where is the reward when the success falls into your lap without having actually faced the issues that you're trying to overcome?

 

[payn]

I find the whole idea of escapism very strange.
And even if it's an actual thing, why would people immerse themselves in worlds of brutal violence and senseless killing to relax and distract themselves from their own daily life.
The wish fulfillment that I see catered to with "kill the faceless hordes of evil" is getting away with whatever you want without having to justify your actions. Which does not seem healthy.

Mostly, I see people perceiving the appeal of heroic fantasy fiction in general an RPGs in particular to see great wrongs being put right successfully. Where is the reward when the success falls into your lap without having actually faced the issues that you're trying to overcome?

I think its a personal answer, that could have cultural impact. I just dont know how to discuss the concept well.

 

[Mercurius]

Ursula K Le Guin said, when talking about fantasy literature in her seminal essay, "Why Are Americans Afraid of Dragons?", that the primary "use of the imagination" is "to give you pleasure and delight." She added a secondary use, which is "to deepen your understanding of your world, and your fellow men, and your own feelings, and your destiny."

But let us not skip over that she said that the first is primary. This was part of her defense for fantasy at a time when it was still deemed in a pejorative light, as "mere escapism." Her view was that giving pleasure and delight is itself a noble cause.

But in terms of D&D, we play it to have fun, to experience pleasure and delight - and that is shared by everyone. Anything after that point varies on the individual. In other words, what meaning they ascribe to the game--and to what degree--is entirely up to them.

I personally don't go to D&D for Le Guin's secondary use, or at least only to a very small degree. I might go to that in a book or film, or when writing a story--it is a good way to work out an idea. But for D&D? No, it is just about fun: playing make-believe in an imaginary world.

This is not to say that it is wrong for another to find that secondary use - not at all. For some people, D&D is the main context they have for being imaginative and creative. Nothing wrong with that, at all.

I think a lot of the disagreements on this meta-topic have to do with the different degrees to which people apply Le Guin's secondary use, and more specifically, what lens of interpretation they use. And depending upon the latter, what hermeneutics one employs, different aspects of D&D will look differently.

 

[Mercurius]

I find the whole idea of escapism very strange.
And even if it's an actual thing, why would people immerse themselves in worlds of brutal violence and senseless killing to relax and distract themselves from their own daily life.
The wish fulfillment that I see catered to with "kill the faceless hordes of evil" is getting away with whatever you want without having to justify your actions. Which does not seem healthy.

Would you apply the same logic with actors who play bad people? Is it "unhealthy" to play a character that does bad things?

I think people immerse themselves in such worlds because, well, they're not real - and they know it. I personally am glad that I'm not a mighty-thewed barbarian fighting hordes of evil, but it certainly is fun to play in an imaginative context. It isn't about getting away with stuff or even wish fulfillment. It is really quite basic, and taken directly from childhood: It is fun to play make-believe.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Given all these goals, I think we are caught up redefining what fun and escapism is all about.

It's hard for me to define for another person what their fun and escapism should be. All I know is what works for my table.

And I know at my table, it's not fun nor escapism if the game turns into Sociology 101. We're just there to relax from the daily stressors with friends by roleplaying completely fictional personalities and defeating completely fictional super-evil bad guys, not agonize over whether orcs or drow are inherently evil, or whether a "dwarf" hates being called a dwarf because the word can mean something much smaller than usual size, suggesting there's something wrong with being a "dwarf" because it's not usual size, and then we get to "halfling" and who would call themselves "half" of anything....

However, I'm not running a big company and having to decide how the product I put out reflects on the values of that company and its image, and its profits, and its employees who depend on that company. I'm just a guy trying to roll some d20s with some pals on a lazy afternoon.

 

[Divine2021]

Please stop bringing morality into my mass murder simulator, where everyone is ultimately summed up by a number which represents what it takes to kill them.

 

[Malmuria]

The PHB section on Tieflings begins as follows: "To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling." The thing is, I've experienced versions of that in real life because of my ethnicity. So it's not really fantasy escapism away from the realities of everyday life, but a reproduction of it. I may want to inhabit that fantasy and explore what it would be like to be a devil-person in that world. But maybe I don't, and if I don't, I find it somewhat tiresome (whether it's me or someone else who is the tiefling character). Same with fantasy worlds that have slavery or massacres of goblin villages; the real world has versions of those things too, so it's not necessarily escapism. As always, being able to have a conversation with your group is important.

 

[Bohandas]

Orcs, elves, and dwarves are different species*.

If you're given a dog, a cat and a horse it isn't racial stereotyping to have the dog herd your sheep, the horse pull your wagon, and the cat catch mice.


*in D&D at any rate. Admittedly in LotR orcs and elves are the same species (although dwarves are still distinct) and in Elder Scrolls all three all the same species (although they're still distinct from humans as well as from the lizard people and the cat people and the the tree creatures)

 

[DarkMantle]

OK so what escapism looks like... is has a lot to do with what you're escaping from

To have fun, some people run away from Sociology 101, and some people run towards it

To enjoy myself, I avoid watching horror movies and serial killer TV shows. Some people want to watch torture porn and murder shows, on purpose. Go figure.