D&D satanic; here we go again.

[Angcuru]

There are three types of people who fall under the category of D&D satanism accusers:

1) People who gather in the same building every week and take every word that some guy talking at a podium is saying to be absolute, final, indisputible truth.

2) People who are too weak to formulate their own opinions,and rely on popular media to tell them what to think. They hear something on the news, or from a D&D hating group, and take that 'fact' to be reality. See above group.

3) Morons. See above two groups.

Simple fact is that no religion opposes D&D. They are faiths, ways of life. It's when you create an organization to interperet the faith that things start to go awry.

This type of organization put the stamp of approval on a game where you enslave wild monsters and force them to fight each other for your amusement and benefit.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Every group has it's morons. Even us.

 

[ledded]

My psych teacher used to serve on a nuclear sub. I asked him about this, and he told me that it was, indeed, a huge thing in the submarines.

A childhood friend/gaming buddy of mine joined the Navy out of high school and was worried that there would be no gaming as a submariner.

In 12 years he was stationed on at least 3 different boomers (late eighties through the nineties), often out to sea for months at the time, and pretty much the only thing he could tell us about what they did at sea was that on each one there was at least *3* or more gaming groups going at any given time (D&D, Mecha, supers, etc), and that he had first-hand knowledge that many, if not most other subs were very similar. His first gaming group he got into in his Navy career was in basic training.

 

[dvvega]

I think the problem in this attempt at argument is that you are attempting to argue that D&D is not-satanic and all of the suggestions and examples are aimed at that. However religion and faith are viewpoint based. It matters not what you can prove about D&D, they will not listen because of faith.

The other thing to try is to undermine the basics of their faith, but then again this will just set them off. You cannot win the argument UNLESS they are wanting you to show them. Those people who claim to have "won the debate" only did so because their audience was not truly faithful. A true faithful will not be diverted from their belief system.

On the flipside, the way you can find out if you have even a chance of discussing it with her, go for the psychiatrist argument. Do not bring D&D into the discussion except as a summary/wrap-up.

1. Discuss psychiatrists and how they help lots of people sort through their issues. One of their techniques is role-playing ... but you CANNOT, MUST NOT use terms like roleplaying. You do not want her to get her hackles up.

2. Remember the good old days when playing with dolls, cops and robbers, making your own fun with the little you had, these kids with video games nowadays ... -=shake head=-. If she has children and she forbids them to enjoy this basic pastime then you have no hope of convincing her that D&D is not satanic.

you can see where I'm headed here ... take aspects of the game and put them into real-life context. I don't want to pick on the_one_warlock, however the arguments he posits cause the following responses 9 times out of 10 (I have been through this with a Reverend at my old school, and many other hardline religous people).

D&D teaches maths
- so does going to school, I don't need to truck with satan to learn maths

D&D teachs social skills
- so does going to church, I don't need to truck with satan to learn social skills

D&D increases reading skills ...
- so does reading the bible, reading literary classics, etc

D&D provides a vehicle for exploring the human condition
- God is the only one who can do this. We are not meant to explore the human condition or the struggle between good/evil ... evil is the loser, we have no truck with evil.

Testament is a Biblical RPG
- biggest mistake you can make. If you read it, they posit many heretical things in the eyes of christianity.This will be taken as Satan masquerading as something "good" to gain more followers.

In fact if you bring up D&D at all without laying the ground work you will lose the argument - of course if she's hardline then you can't win at all.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

There's a lot of good advice here, and I think the best approach is the one that one that best deals with this situation in particular. If the person is open-minded & willing to hear your side of things, then go for it. However, if the person holds that opinion as an absolute/unargueable truth/stand/view, then avoidance probably would be your best bet.

On a side note, has anyone encountered such situations/conflicts with non-Christians who basically proclaim the same sentiment? I'm not trying to stir trouble; I'm just curious to see if such sentiments are present with some followers of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, or any other faith.

 

[Captain Howdy]

This type of organization put the stamp of approval on a game where you enslave wild monsters and force them to fight each other for your amusement and benefit.

Must... Catch 'em all...

 

[Turjan]

Being from Europe, this whole discussion does not really concern me much. However, I like to add that I can understand that certain aspects of D&D lead to conflicts with religious people.

Upon creating D&D, the designers used a patchwork of material from many sources, like J.R.R. Tolkien, Jack Vance, Poul Anderson, etc. One of the sources was Judeo-Christian religion. They included Demons, Devils or the Nine Hells, because they thought these elements made for cool enemies to fight against. Seeing the big rave about books with these topics on these boards, I see that many gamers share this sentiment. If you look further into D&D supplements, you will find that the "churches" of many deities of Greyhawk or the FR are, as far as their organization is concerned, pretty exact copies of Christian churches and their organization. If you look at most plans of temples, you see the similarity again. I don't think that this is consciously designed this way, but that the authors simply followed examples they knew from their environment.

I'm not religious. However, and this may look funny to you, I don't like elements like angels or devils in my campaign, because they are not "fantasy" enough for me. I like to keep real world religion out of my games, even if it's a fantasy version thereof. In this vein, I'm not really surprised that topics like this show up all the time; somehow, D&D calls for it .

 

[Psionicist]

The other day, my wife had a phone conversation with her sister about my being a gamer, specifically a D&D player. My sister-in-law, a devout Christian, tossed out the old “D&D is satanic” line and she is worried about my soul. I am thankful, she worries about my well-being, but you most of you know how irritating this old “satanic” label is and I intend to debate the issue over a Sunday lunch this weekend. I don’t think I can win, I have found people with this opinion a bit closed minded, but I am curious how would you make the argument.

I live in Europe and I know exactly one Christian, so this idea is probably pretty dumb, but wouldn't it be a fun gag to tell her D&D _is_ satanic? Show her the worst possible aspects of D&D, including Book of Vile Darkness and the demons and devils in Monster Manual. What's she gonna do about it? You are protected by the first amendment.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I am so glad that I started gaming before this whole D&D is Satanic thing began.

In the first D&D game I ever played in one of the players was a Catholic priest, and the game took place in the basement of the local Unitarian/Universalist church. 'Course according to some fundamentalists I am going to Hell anyway because of having anything to do with Catholic priests or the Unitarians ...

The Auld Grump

 

[Orius]

Yeah well, in-laws are always a pain anyway.

 

[WayneLigon]

1. Discuss psychiatrists and how they help lots of people sort through their issues. One of their techniques is role-playing ... but you CANNOT, MUST NOT use terms like roleplaying. You do not want her to get her hackles up.

I wouldn't bring that up at all; the two things are totally different. Role-playing as used by psychologists is role assumption designed to help a person 'walk a mile in another person's shoes' (among other things). There is only the most tenuous connection to what we do; really, the name is the only real point of similarity.

Another reason not to bring it up: psychologists don't exactly have the best of reputations because of all the quacks and freaks that pop psych generated.