D&D General D&D's feel vs. what D&D should keep - final comparison

[JEB]

As many of you folks have likely noticed by now, I ran two polls here, on rpg.net, and on nine different D&D-related subreddits: "What makes D&D feel like D&D?" and "What elements does D&D need to keep?"

Before I step back from this for the foreseeable, I figured it might be interesting to take the final tallies from both polls (364 responses for "feel" and 389 for "keep") and compare them - to see want people feel is part of D&D, as opposed to what they want to keep in the game. (This also addresses the question that led to the second poll even happening.)

I'm using the same general tiers I used in every previous poll summary; however, this time, items in bold are in the same tiers between the two sets (you'll see why):

	What makes D&D feel like D&D?	What elements does D&D need to keep?
Very important (80% and up)	Ability scores (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha): 302 [82.96%] Levels: 295 [81.04%] Distinct character classes: 293 [80.49%]	Distinct character classes: 350 [89.97%] Levels: 342 [87.92%] Ability scores (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha): 335 [86.12%] Using multiple types of dice: 328 [84.32%] Hit points: 326 [83.80%]
Important (60% to 80%)	Hit points: 266 [73.08%] Armor Class: 259 [71.15%] Using multiple types of dice: 249 [68.41%] Saving throws: 222 [60.99%]	Armor Class: 308 [79.18%] Distinct character races/lineages: 297 [76.35%] Saving throws: 280 [71.98%] Lists of specific spells: 267 [68.64%] Initiative: 265 [68.12%]
Debatable (40% to 60%)	Distinct character races/lineages: 203 [55.77%] Lists of specific spells: 188 [51.65%] Experience points: 181 [49.73%] Alignment: 168 [46.15%] Initiative: 152 [41.76%]	Lists of specific magic items: 227 [58.35%] Damage types: 219 [56.30%] Conditions: 200 [51.41%] Creature types: 197 [50.64%] Multiclassing: 196 [50.39%] Lists of specific equipment: 195 [50.13%] Feats: 189 [48.59%] Advantage/disadvantage: 187 [48.07%] Proficiencies: 185 [47.56%] Experience points: 184 [47.30%] Hit dice: 167 [42.93%]
Less important (20% to 40%)	Lists of specific magic items: 131 [35.99%] Hit dice: 114 [31.32%] Lists of specific equipment: 99 [27.20%] Creature types: 86 [23.63%] Damage types: 85 [23.35%]	Deities: 155 [39.85%] Backgrounds: 146 [37.53%] Surprise: 143 [36.76%] Alignment: 128 [32.90%] Challenge ratings: 100 [25.71%] Great Wheel cosmology: 80 [20.57%]
Not important (20% and below)	Deities: 69 [18.96%] Multiclassing: 56 [15.38%] Great Wheel cosmology: 56 [15.38%] Proficiencies: 52 [14.29%] Feats: 49 [13.46%] Surprise: 42 [11.54%] Challenge ratings: 38 [10.44%] Conditions: 36 [9.89%] Advantage/disadvantage: 33 [9.07%] Backgrounds: 26 [7.14%] World Axis cosmology: 23 [6.32%]	World Axis cosmology: 34 [8.74%]

Observations:

• As you may have noticed, there's very little overlap as far as tiers. There are lots and lots of elements that respondents thought were not part of D&D's feel, but voted much more strongly in favor of keeping... though many of those low-ranking "feel" elements only rose to the "debatable" middle in the "keep" poll.
• I feel pretty confident in saying that ability scores, levels, and distinct character classes were strongly supported in general by respondents, considering they ranked at the top of both polls (though for whatever reason, in exactly the opposite order). I don't think I'd try making a version of D&D that lacked them, at least if I wanted the forums to support me. Armor Class and saving throws also seem to be solid runners-up in both polls.
• XP garners mixed opinions, whether it's a matter of feel or desire to keep. (Also, those vote counts are weirdly close.)
• Excepting the top-tier stuff, most of the generic elements shared widely by other RPGs (multiple dice, initiative, etc.) scored much lower on "feel", but were still desirable to keep.
• Only two things actually score lower in "keep" than "feel". One is XP, although only by a few percentage points, so not likely significant. More notable is alignment - almost half thought it was part of D&D's feel, but only about a third actively want to keep it. (I admit that's not a result I wanted to see, but it is what it is.)
• The Great Wheel cosmology rates higher in "keep" than "feel", although not by much. That seems counterintuitive to me, considering it's a lore element, but there it is.
• I want to give the World Axis a hug at this point.

Disclaimers:
1. I am not a professional pollster; I am only one person with few analytic resources at my disposal.
2. These polls were very simplistic and binary. As such, while the polls indicate affirmative support, they do not indicate what a lack of support means - it could be anything from "I don't care" to "I hate this". However, this information could be captured by different polls.
3. The polls do not reflect intensity of support, which could also be captured by more sophisticated polls. This means it's possible that support for an element may be weaker than it seems (if lots of people support it, but only weakly) or stronger than it seems (if fewer people support it, but very strongly). I don't know how much impact this would have on the high and low ends of the scale, where the very large or very small numbers of votes would be hard to override, but it could mean a lot for stuff in the middle.
4. I deliberately kept the descriptions of each element broad, because I didn't want to favor any one edition's approach to, say, saving throws. However, I am informed that this led some folks to not vote in favor of elements they might have otherwise supported. This is unfortunate, but it's too late for me to fix now.
5. The sample sizes for the two polls are small, especially considering how many people had the opportunity to answer (at least hundreds here and thousands on Reddit). So these results can really only be said to reflect the views of the respondents, might reflect the communities they came from, and only possibly suggest trends among online D&D fans, or D&D fans generally.
6. In short, these results shouldn't be taken as the final, definitive answers to the questions. But I still think they're interesting.

 

[aco175]

It is interesting to look at the things that are more than one step away from each other. I can skip over Hit Points being 80-100% in one and only 60-80% in the other ad close enough. Things like Feats, Proficiencies, and Advantage/Disadvantage jump from below 20% in feeling like D&D to the 40-60% in keeping with D&D. Not sure what that really is saying about the responders.

I would guess that this is more a mechanical aspect or tool of the game and less a feel for what the game is. Most of these double-jump items are newer things from the last few editions and not things that have been around for 50 years. Not sure if that says something about today's player vs. the older 1e/2e player in terms of style and imagination, or having/needing rules and structure.

 

[Desdichado]

I imagine that if you'd put Great Wheel cosmology instead of World Axis cosmology, that you'd have had a higher response rate. Although I personally thought the cosmological changes of 4e were all sensible and good ideas that I'd either already implemented, or even gone further than in many cases, I was clearly an outlier, and that was among one of the most voiced complaints about 4es cosmology. I'm a little out of touch with what people think of the World Axis vs the Great Wheel, although no doubt they like it better than they did the 4e cosmology, because it's more like the Great Wheel, and more to the point, it belongs with Forgotten Realms as the default assumption much better.

Although given its low showing, I'd guess that the World Axis cosmology isn't really a big hit.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Although given its low showing, I'd guess that the World Axis cosmology isn't really a big hit.

I'll admit, I've been playing D&D for 20 years, and I would have trouble telling you what the World Axis or Great Wheel are.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think the tops of both lists really represent what is iconic about D&D. You could change a lot of other rules, but as long as you have distinct classes, different dice, levels, and iconic ability scores, it's D&D.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Although given its low showing, I'd guess that the World Axis cosmology isn't really a big hit.

I don't think that's entirely true.

I think the main issue is that whilst world axis cosmology is my favourite D&D cosmology, when I've seen it listed in polls I had NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what they were talking about and assumed it was some weird old thing.

I think if you put it as "World Axis - i.e. Feywild/Shadowfell/Elemental Chaos etc." then it would have been a hell of a lot more popular. I'm very sure I never voted for it despite loving it.

Also any time the Feywild and Shadowfell come up they're extremely popular and they're in 5E for a reason.

 

[JEB]

I think the tops of both lists really represent what is iconic about D&D. You could change a lot of other rules, but as long as you have distinct classes, different dice, levels, and iconic ability scores, it's D&D.

Classes, levels, and ability scores definitely seem to be must-haves for D&D, at least to respondents of both polls. Different dice a bit less so, but definitely up there, along with hit points (but not so much Hit Dice) and Armor Class.

 

[JEB]

Also any time the Feywild and Shadowfell come up they're extremely popular and they're in 5E for a reason.

The funny thing is, thanks to 5E the Great Wheel basically stole some of the best ideas from the World Axis (Feywild, Shadowfell, and even a version of the Elemental Chaos). Doesn't leave the World Axis with as much distinctiveness (in terms of structure - lore is a different matter).

 

[Bluenose]

So it seems the argument between D&D as Simulationist and D&D as Gamist has been won hands down by the preference of the majority for a Gamist approach. I wonder if that'll stop denunciation of elements (such as the Bo9S or much of 4e) as being elements that don't fit into D&D's simulationist tradition, but I suspect they'll continue to draw the same objections.

 

[JEB]

So it seems the argument between D&D as Simulationist and D&D as Gamist has been won hands down by the preference of the majority for a Gamist approach. I wonder if that'll stop denunciation of elements (such as the Bo9S or much of 4e) as being elements that don't fit into D&D's simulationist tradition, but I suspect they'll continue to draw the same objections.

It only looks like "gamist" won out because nearly all the distinctive elements I listed in the poll were part of the structure of the game. There simply weren't many non-gamist elements for voters to choose from.

Also worth noting that in the comments on the threads for each poll on ENWorld, rpg.net, and Reddit, as well as responses provided under "Other", there were plenty of more abstract, non-gamist answers, such as "dungeon crawls" or "exploration". It wasn't one of my goals for the polls to look at such elements, but had they been voting options, they might have done quite well for themselves.

In short, these polls don't really address the gamist vs. simulationist question for D&D. (But if someone cleverer than me wants to make such a poll, I'd love to see it...)