d20 modern Failed...why? (or did it?)

[Ahzad]

I voted no.

I played some D20 Modern and while I liked D20 Modern initially and really liked the D20 mini games that were in Dungeon/Polyhedron I had the good fortune to pick up read and play Spycraft and thought why wasn't D20 Modern this good. So I promptly got rid of all the Modern stuff I had bought and replaced it with what I think is a much superior system. YMMV.

 

[Klaus]

I quite liked d20 Modern, the Wealth system and the ability-based Base Classes. With so many genres to cover, it was a nice approach. I think the book suffered from no campaign settings from the get-go. Instead of Urban Arcana, I think Shadow Chasers would've been a better option.

The adventure paths in the d20 Modern websites are insteresting, and maybe an adventure book would've helped the game find its audience.

 

[rgard]

I voted no.

I played some D20 Modern and while I liked D20 Modern initially and really liked the D20 mini games that were in Dungeon/Polyhedron I had the good fortune to pick up read and play Spycraft and thought why wasn't D20 Modern this good. So I promptly got rid of all the Modern stuff I had bought and replaced it with what I think is a much superior system. YMMV.

Yep, I enjoyed the Iron Lords of Jupiter.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I bought the core book when it came out. Ran a quick one-shot and enjoyed it alot. I played a quick 2 shot as well, and liked it.

But that's all the play that D20 Modern saw. D&D was the popular option of prefference and everyone wanted to play that before Modern even came up.

I don't think it was a failure as a system (I liked the system and thought it was fantasticly done) but more of a failure of Genre. Why play a game where YOU go outside and fight a dragon when you can play a game where You-as-Conan/Merlin/Ali baba/whoever go out and fight a dragon?

 

[Ahzad]

Yep, I enjoyed the Iron Lords of Jupiter.

Iron Lords of Jupiter and V for Victory were my two favorites.

 

[Greg K]

I like d20 Modern. I actually like it better than 3e and defintiely much better than 4e. My only major complaint is the fx systems.

If I were going to revise it, I would make the following changes:

1. an explanation on the d20M class system from the designers like that found in the Modern Player's Companion (The Game Mechanics/Green Ronin)
2. some additional occupations (The Game Mechanics/Green Ronin)
3. a change in the treatment of martial arts (RPGObjects's Blood and Fists)
4. a new fx system for magic (Elements of Magic Mythic Earth from EN Publishing)
5. a new fx system for psionics (Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook)
6. Make Advanced Classes work with talent trees rather than the current style.
7. Change Action Points to work more like M&M hero points when modifiying d20 rolls.
8. Skills
- Passive Perception and Opposed Checks
- Complex skill checks (UA)
9. Combat
- revised rules for Automatic weapons
- a Star Wars condition trick or a new damage system like that of True20.
- Death and Dying Rules like those in Unearthed Arcana
- add a second wind mechanic for all characters rather than a talent tree
- a Book of Iron Might style maneuver system
10. a quick NPC generator like Adamant's Foe Factory: Modern (which is based on Spycraft)
11. Hot Pursuit style chase rules.
12. Make incantations from Urban Arcana and Unearthed Arcana core.

I also wouldn't mind the following:
- removing iterative attacks or making additional attacks into feats.
- a unified saving throw progresson similar to 4e's defenses
- saving throws as defenses

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think D20 Modern failed in lack of support, I was waiting forever for D20 Supers, but later found out the project was put aside when developers were shifted to Star Wars Saga Edition.

I was disappointed by this too.

It was as if somebody said "Hey! Let's create something as flexible as Hero or GURPS and then take out all of the options for everything except modern combat!"

and

Point buy is where Mutants & Masterminds succeeds in being a good replacement for D20 Modern.

and

I played some D20 Modern and while I liked D20 Modern initially and really liked the D20 mini games that were in Dungeon/Polyhedron I had the good fortune to pick up read and play Spycraft and thought why wasn't D20 Modern this good. So I promptly got rid of all the Modern stuff I had bought and replaced it with what I think is a much superior system. YMMV.

This is pretty much what I was talking about. D20 Modern got off to a good start as a solid modern toolbox RPG, but the 3PPs took it and made it better...and WotC simply didn't respond.

And they compounded their error by not giving the players more than sketched out settings- Urban Arcana and Dark*Matter- to get things rolling.

The other major successful toolbox settings like GURPS and HERO have several well-defined settings.

The death of Polyhedron didn't help any, either.

 

[Greg K]

This is pretty much what I was talking about. D20 Modern got off to a good start as a solid modern toolbox RPG, but the 3PPs took it and made it better...and WotC simply didn't respond...

Or they did with things like d20 Past.

And they compounded their error by not giving the players more than sketched out settings- Urban Arcana and Dark*Matter- to get things rolling

Yep.

Overall, I didn't think WOTC's support supplements measured up to the third parties like RPGObjects, Adamant, and Green Ronin (including their partners). Then again, I, generally, feel the same about DND as well.

 

[Spatula]

So classes should represent just archetypes Spatula?

Right, that's what classes are for. They're prepackaged collections of abilities that build upon a particular character theme or archtype.

In this case shouldn't point buy be more direct and to the point to let you build the archetype you want?

Well, that's why I suggested scrapping classes for point buy as an alternative. The "generic" classes are sort of a backdoor point-buy system that doesn't really work because of the d20 mechanics - using multiclassing to "build" your character ruins your BAB (usually), either makes your saving throws amazing or suck-tastic, makes any ability dependant on class level irrelevant, etc. etc.

Also I find the specific implementation of the generic classes in d20 Modern to be very limiting (also in SWSE, to a slightly lesser extent).

 

[xechnao]

Right, that's what classes are for. They're prepackaged collections of abilities that build upon a particular character theme or archtype.

Well I do not think this is the function of classes -at least traditionally. I rather think that classes were a ruling machination to implement the gameplay elements of a game. The adventuring day or the combat-arena for example.
One is much better suited to build an archetype using point buy. Of course in fantasy settings classes can be seen as archetypes because fantasy is about the special abilities one has that the others do not (for such a special ability to take place we need the character that has it): the wizards, the dragons, the monsters and all of that. Of course D&D exploits this fact and joins the gameplay rules with the archetype fluff of fantasy.