d20 modern Failed...why? (or did it?)

[Dannyalcatraz]

As others pointed out you really needed magic or psionics to make it work..

This I completely disagree with. As much as I dislike the fx systems, you didn't need magic or psionics to make ithe game work.

Exactly- that is a failing not of the system but of certain players being uninterested in the system's default power level and playstyle. You may want psi or arcana, but they're not required to make the game work.

Not every "modern" genre setting requires magic or psi, and some may even become silly if they're included. It's tough running a mystery/detective game when a significant portion of the PCs or NPCs can use divination spells or psionics. A Rambo/Full Metal Jacket type campaign might lose some of its appeal if someone can TK bullets away from their body.

 

[pawsplay]

It had several supplements. It was referenced by a number of third party products, including a superhero book. I consulted on a 3pp product, Dawning Star, that received an Ennie nomination and at least at one time had a thriving fan community. Many of its innovations, such as class defense bonuses, Talents, Incantations (i.e. rituals), and so forth informed Star Wars Saga, 4e, and numerous 3pp expansions of the d20/OGL line.

However, it was never successful enough to really have its own identity, apart from being just another d20 thing. The design was not brilliant. The core books were generic to the extreme. Different books had limited design compatibility... compare the d20 Modern stats for firearms to d20 Past, and for that matter, to the DMG. Urban Arcana was a cute concept, but suffered from a "suspension of belief," that is, it was hard to imagine a world much like our own populated by magical creatures from a D&D world in which the modern characters did not realize the creatures were from a D&D world. Mathematically, it was a mess that quickly broke down after level 15 or so.

While I have no hard evidence, I suspect that what was left of the line got sponged up by the Modern Pocket PHB from Mongoose and the collective realization that it was so generic, the SRD was truly sufficient just by itself. Oh, and a bunch of people noticed a new version of GURPS came out that was awesome and made of win.

Eventually, it faded into obsolescence as True20 and M&M became distinct brands in their own right.

 

[CharlesRyan]

As others pointed out you really needed magic or psionics to make it work.

Count me among those who disagree. I ran a couple campaigns and many one-shots, all with little or no FX.

I also ran a couple of crossover events, in particular two or three lengthy one-shots that threw non-FX Modern characters into Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Fun and interesting. The Modern PCs had some very serious disadvantages, but also some interesting advantages.

In the end, I would concur that the Modern characters are objectively unequipped to thrive in the very-high-magic-and-supernatural D&D world. But that doesn't mean the Modern game itself requires magic or psionics.

 

[talien]

I consider it a success, since I'm still playing it.

 

[Greg K]

I consider it a success, since ]I'm still playing it

.

And, thank you for some really wonderful stuff for the game- both the RPGObjects stuff and the material on your site. I love Blood and Blades (despite it using the default fx system). Any chance of a little "unofficial" web enhancement for those of us using Elements of Magic:Mythic Earth and Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook?

 

[boerngrim]

I generally liked D20 Modern. I wasn't entirely thrilled with the generic base classes. They were good for a no magic/psionic game, but I thought there should have been options for starting characters with magic and/or psionic ability.

My idea for a campaign was set in our world, but an alternate history version of it. Fantasy creatures exist and are known to exist. I live near an Indian Reservation, and I had the idea of placing orcs and goblins on reservations, while the Native Americans were more readily accepted. They may be different humans, but they are human.

I also wanted to basically ignore alignment except in the case of fundamentaly aligned creatures like devils, demons, angels, etc.

My take on healing magic and religion would be that the "priest" or "shaman", etc., is able to heal and work other miracles based on the strength of his or her faith. I wanted to avoid discussing if God existed or which real world religion was "right".

I know most of these are not new ideas, but I thought D20 Modern would be a good springboard for a Modern Fantasy game. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to run it.

 

[talien]

.

And, thank you for some really wonderful stuff for the game- both the RPGObjects stuff and the material on your site. I love Blood and Blades (despite it using the default fx system). Any chance of a little "unofficial" web enhancement for those of us using Elements of Magic:Mythic Earth and Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook?

Happy to, but since I own neither that's not likely to happen at the moment. I'm mostly focused on fiction these days (and, you know, my day job of recruitment communications in a down economy), but if I find the time and my toddler lets me type I might get around to it.

Thanks for the kind words!

 

[renau1g]

This I completely disagree with. As much as I dislike the fx systems, you didn't need magic or psionics to make ithe game work. You could run military games, westerns, and other stuff that didn't require magic or psionics just fine. It's just when running a campaign utilizing magic or psionics that default systems fell flat for me.

I don't have the books in front of me, but weren't all the monsters/enemies in the sourcebooks either psionic or magical? Sure you can create tons of NPC's, but as others have pointed out it is extremely time-consuming for a DM to do that as there aren't many generators out there.

 

[Greg K]

I don't have the books in front of me, but weren't all the monsters/enemies in the sourcebooks either psionic or magical?

The only WOTC supplements that I own for d20M are d20Future and the Menace Manual. D20M and the Menace Manual had a lot of NPCs that didn't have psionics or magic. They even gave you a lot of 2nd, 6th, and 10th level versions of people that can be used in a normal campaign.

Plus, there were several 3rd party material that didn't have fx.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I just happened to be flipping through the Menace Manual last night and while there are a lot of psionic or supernatural critters, not all of them require psionics or magic to combat. Many are just as susceptible to mundane weaponry as a PC.

Now, does that mean they're pushovers? No. Some of them are devilishly tough to take down without access to FX systems. However, that just plays into the old style horror/sci-fi/fantasy monster stories.

In those, you have a solo or small number of critters that are tough to kill vs regular Joes and Janes who have to use all of their cunning and weapons at their disposal- possibly even improvising things, perhaps remembering the legends of the critters to find their "bane"- to take them down. Sasquatch? Lots of bullets. Lycanthrope? Find the family silver! Mummy? Fire, return whatever treasure its trying to recapture or get it and all of the tomb's treasure back into the tomb!