D20 saturation at an end?

[WizarDru]

Okay, seriously, how could you not know about Oathbound? I'm not the biggest fan of the setting, the prestige races and some of the other vibes I get from it aren't my style but...

Once again, showing that people have to have things crammed down their throats before it even shows up as a blip on their radar.

Oh, I was aware of Oathbound, but not what it was about. I saw a lot of standard boiler plate about it being 'different'....but I see that for virtually every setting. My previous exposure to Bastion had been underwhelming, and while I knew the setting was well-received, I've seen other material that underwhelmed in the same way (Arcana Undearthed comes to mind).

I mean, most of their website and advertising communicates the following to me:

• PCs play characters yanked from about the cosmos by some semi-diving beings
• The place is called The Forge
• People are constantly fighting there

That's not a lot to go on. The only thing I know that's geninuinely different was the introduction (on a large scale) of Prestige Races, a concept I find a little dicey, personally. That's not to say I don't think it may not be a great setting: it very well could be. But I didn't see anything that really grabbed me by the throat to bother investigating it further (i.e read reviews on it). The reviews you referenced showed it to be more interesting than I thought.

I did know they had novels (thanks to some ads in Dragon a while ago), but considered that more of a negative (since it invoked bad TSR novel-tie-in associations).

 

[DaveMage]

Once again, showing that people have to have things crammed down their throats before it even shows up as a blip on their radar.

As a slight hijack, this is actually something that is a much bigger topic. I work at a community college, and one of the interesting things that has come up is the absolute BARRAGE of information that students are exposed to each day. It causes people to have tunnel vision, so to speak.

Just look at the web pages you visit on a regular basis. How much of the visual content on each page do you simply "tune out"? When I look at a web page, I tend to competely ignore most of the advertising and hone in on that which is relevant to me at that particular time.

The same thing goes for items on EN World. Unless you are specifically looking to find out what resources exist on the site, you may tend to ignore a lot of it.

Back on topic, and since there really is d20 product information overload here, I probably tend to focus on that which I know, and don't branch out as much as I probably should. Others probably do the same.

 

[Drifter Bob]

There is no D20 crisis, what we're seeing now is totally expected in any boom situation in a capitalist market. Its good, healthy, a culling of the herd.

The only end result of this sort of thing will be that we will end up with a higher percentage of good product, and a lower percentage of redundancy.

Nisarg

Uh, in the real world what we've ended up with after a lot of "capitalist culling" is Wal-Mart. If thats the way games are headed....


DB

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Uh, in the real world what we've ended up with after a lot of "capitalist culling" is Wal-Mart. If thats the way games are headed....

If that's the way games are headed then we'll have a small number of larger game companies selling to a much larger audience and the rest of the d20/RPG community can form boutique, niche, or cheaper products.

Yeah, don't throw me in that briar patch!

 

[tf360]

Oh, I was aware of Oathbound, but not what it was about. I saw a lot of standard boiler plate about it being 'different'....but I see that for virtually every setting. My previous exposure to Bastion had been underwhelming, and while I knew the setting was well-received, I've seen other material that underwhelmed in the same way (Arcana Undearthed comes to mind).

I mean, most of their website and advertising communicates the following to me:

• PCs play characters yanked from about the cosmos by some semi-diving beings
• The place is called The Forge
• People are constantly fighting there

That's not a lot to go on. The only thing I know that's geninuinely different was the introduction (on a large scale) of Prestige Races, a concept I find a little dicey, personally. That's not to say I don't think it may not be a great setting: it very well could be. But I didn't see anything that really grabbed me by the throat to bother investigating it further (i.e read reviews on it). The reviews you referenced showed it to be more interesting than I thought.

I did know they had novels (thanks to some ads in Dragon a while ago), but considered that more of a negative (since it invoked bad TSR novel-tie-in associations).

If you need more information about what Oathbound is, the following link should provide you with enough detail to satisfy your curiousity.

http://www.bastionpress.com/oathbound.htm

The abbreviated version of this information is best handled like this. Eons ago, a coalition of deities rose up against a supreme deity. Unable to outright destroy him, they imprisoned him within the heart of a lifeless planet. To ensure that he did not escape, they constructed seven citadels to serve as seals, preventing him from sundering the bonds of imprisonment. To guard each of the citadels, the deities compelled the bound god's seven greatest creations to serve as his jailors, forcing them to abide by a solemn oath to defend the prison. Over time, the seven sentinels, known as the Feathered Fowl discovered that there were loopholes in the oaths binding them to perform this appointed task. They learned that they could transport objects, terrain and living creatures to the planet, thus forming the seven different domains that comprise the realm of the Forge. Many of the Feathered Fowl long to escape, an action only permissible if another creature destroys them and then takes their place as the guardian of the citadel. To further this end, the Feathered Fowl pull many of the most powerful creatures and characters from throughout the universe to the Forge, hoping that one of them will liberate them from their bonds. That's a basic synopsis of Oathbound.

If I were to equate it with something universally familiar, I'd have to say it has a similar feeling to Planescape, although it is by no means a clone or imitation. Oathbound is a fairly high magic setting designed for more powerful characters, but it is certainly possible to run low-level adventures in Oathbound. In addition, each of the seven domains is profoundly different from the others. One does not merely cross the border from Arena into Wildwood, for instance, and see little if any visible change other than a different political or economic authority. Terrain, climate and composition of the indigenous population change dramatically as one ventures through the varying domains, giving each its own separate feel, (as thus justifying what I'm going to say in the next paragraph).

Our original plan was to produce the core setting and then release two supplements for each of the domains until completing it. Penance and Arena, (the first two domains) received this treatment; however the next release, Wildwood differs from its predecessors. Wildwood is going to be a 256 page hardcover release that functions not only as a follow up to previous Oathbound releases but also has enough background information to function as its own campaign setting in and of itself. Future releases will also follow the same plan.

Sorry to hijack just as bit. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[WizarDru]

Uh, in the real world what we've ended up with after a lot of "capitalist culling" is Wal-Mart. If thats the way games are headed....

Where does the d20 publishing market exist...Neverland?

In the real world, we've ended up with Target, Walmart, BJs, CostCo, a tighter-run K-mart, a tighter-run Sears, and so on. I still get goods from a variety of places, some fancier than others. I also buy many items online. Walmart is hardly without competitors.

Do I feel sorry for Toys 'R' Us, now what Target and Walmart are driving them to possible bankruptcy? Nope. Any more than I did for Lionel Kiddie City, FAO or Kay-Bee, when their times came. It's not a culling so much as evolution. FAO and Kay-Bee charged terrible prices, and hoped prime location, reputation and larger selection would allow that to be acceptable. It wasn't...especially as TRU matched them in other categories. Now the shoe's on the other foot.

There are still lots of d20 publishers around, and even more if you count the PDF market. The difference is now that you have to provide a unique product or be competitive in some way. We already had a Walmart in the d20 business...they're called WotC.

 

[JoeGKushner]

If you need more information about what Oathbound is, the following link should provide you with enough detail to satisfy your curiousity.

http://www.bastionpress.com/oathbound.htm

The abbreviated version of this information is best handled like this. Eons ago, a coalition of deities rose up against a supreme deity. Unable to outright destroy him, they imprisoned him within the heart of a lifeless planet. To ensure that he did not escape, they constructed seven citadels to serve as seals, preventing him from sundering the bonds of imprisonment. To guard each of the citadels, the deities compelled the bound god's seven greatest creations to serve as his jailors, forcing them to abide by a solemn oath to defend the prison.

I had a little story written where this supreme deity was actually the one from Book of the Righteous. If you'll note in book of the Righteous, they indicate that the supreme deity there 'left' for the good of the rest of the universe. Makes some interesting potential eh?

 

[jmucchiello]

In the real world, we've ended up with Target, Walmart, BJs, CostCo, a tighter-run K-mart, a tighter-run Sears, and so on. I still get goods from a variety of places, some fancier than others. I also buy many items online. Walmart is hardly without competitors.

I don't follow this. How does the mega-retailer market compare to the RPG market? Mega-retailers make money by reducing costs through mass sales, owning major parts of the supply chain, and employing low-wage, non-creative employees. RPG publishers have to hire creative workers to create content, have no real control over the distribution chain, and have to deal with the costs of low-count print runs. What's the correlation here? Retailers move products. RPG Publishers create products. They aren't comparable.

 

[tf360]

I had a little story written where this supreme deity was actually the one from Book of the Righteous. If you'll note in book of the Righteous, they indicate that the supreme deity there 'left' for the good of the rest of the universe. Makes some interesting potential eh?

This reminds me of one of my favorite stories my high school. My drama teacher was the president of his English club at the University of Minnesota in the late 1950's, early '60's. The club's guest of honor was the poet, Robert Frost.

When his turn to speak came up, he turned to Robert Frost and said, "Mr. Frost, I got through reading your poem about the three ducks. I couldn't help but notice the symbolism between the three ducks and the Holy Trinity and how it compared to your loss of faith and feelings toward organized religion."

Robert Frost looked at him and without batting an eyelash replied, "Sonny, I wrote that poem about three ducks I saw in a pond. That's it! You're reading way too much into it."

 

[Sir Elton]

Wow! Robert Frost can certainly stand up to the unintellectual Intellectuals (with exception to your teacher, who used flowery language to make himself seem self-important to the others in his group).

Ahem. The best place to compare any publishing industry is to compare it with another publishing industry. When Johannes Gutenburg created the Printing Press, he unlocked the flow of information.

All you have to do is follow the printing business and compare it to our niche business.