Daily powers replaced with class features for Fighter & Ranger

[erf_beto]

Well, they're not "changing it back" so much as they are creating an old-school simple fighter option to go along with the existing tactical fighter option.

Like almost everything else in the development process, WotC starts with their major new ideas (e.g. exception-based design, powers, consistent class mechanics) and then fills in the parts of the game that were left out of the first version. Just because PH1 omitted druids, bards and barbarians didn't mean they didn't belong in 4e. In the same way, just because fighters were tactically complex in PH1 doesn't mean a simple fighter doesn't fit with the rules.

-KS

I must be spending way too much time on this place, 'cause I just got my very first "you must spread experience around before giving it to KidSnide again" note...

Seems a bit strange to me that they went to all of this trouble to make the classes more than "I just swing my sword again this round." just to change it back again a couple of years later. I'll guess we will have to wait and see what the actual results are when the books come out.

Hawkeye

4e combat is lot more dinamic, with combat advantage and skills and teamwork and special terrain and everything, even if you only have a basic attack. Also, they are still getting encounter powers (maybe even more than PHB1?), beast companions, and class features...

IMO that's not standing around yelling "I attack" on a loop.

 

[cdrcjsn]

What exactly do Daily powers give you?

An extra [W] or 2[W] and a special effect over an at-will or encounter power?

Seems like it would be easy to get rid of them by just making the special effect a class feature gained at specific levels and increasing the damage of attacks by +1 or +2 (assuming a 4-5 round average encounter duration), seeing as how a normal PHB1 fighter already gets +1 to hit, it seems it would be easy enough to convert that to +1 hit/+1 damage instead.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Well, they did mention that Beastmaster Rangers can get a boost to their beast instead of one daily.

They gave that as an example of something they could do. The podcast did not confirm what classes lack dailies.

 

[Jack99]

What exactly do Daily powers give you?

An extra [W] or 2[W] and a special effect over an at-will or encounter power?

Seems like it would be easy to get rid of them by just making the special effect a class feature gained at specific levels and increasing the damage of attacks by +1 or +2 (assuming a 4-5 round average encounter duration), seeing as how a normal PHB1 fighter already gets +1 to hit, it seems it would be easy enough to convert that to +1 hit/+1 damage instead.

Its not as simple as that. Dailies are much more (in most classes' case) than merely a bit more damage. Often it is either an effect that can radically change the flow of combat, or a significant bonus/effect that lasts the rest of the combat.

 

[Garthanos]

ZZZZ huh whuh, I hit it with my sword, ZZZZZ
so this is what they are giving out to new players these days....

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Not the worst idea. I like the idea of having books with easy to play characters if i begin this game with new players. For the rest will have my DDI account.

 

[Garthanos]

. I have a niece who is a new player brilliant and I wonder if she might find the simplification offensive, doesnt matter I will be purchasing the real starting books for D&D for her for christmas.

 

[KidSnide]

. I have a niece who is a new player brilliant and I wonder if she might find the simplification offensive, doesnt matter I will be purchasing the real starting books for D&D for her for christmas.

Fair enough - there are lots of good reasons to use the full-complexity PH1-style characters. Personally, I'd much rather play a tactical fighter than a simple fighter.

That said, I play in a number of one-shot con games, and there is usually at least one player who's not that familiar with 4e. If you're playing a level 7 game (which is common), it's really hard to come up to speed with a class you've never seen when you have only three and a half hours to play. A less complicated class would be a very nice addition.

Similarly, epic-level 4-hour one-shots are effectively unplayable under the PH1 rules. And that's a terrible shame, since Illiad-style games make terrific 4-hour scenarios. I wonder if a simplified class might produce a 25th-level character that an experienced gamer might play without having to study it for an hour first?

-KS

 

[renau1g]

ZZZZ huh whuh, I hit it with my sword, ZZZZZ
so this is what they are giving out to new players these days....

I personally would find it boring, but I actually had a played who really was this. He fell asleep sometimes (he worked midnights) and we literally poked him to wake him up, and this was his reaction every time. It was hilarious.

He doesn't play 4e anymore, because he liked the simplicity of the fighter class from 3e as he was frequently half-asleep during sessions. I suggested ranger, but he said he hates them tree-huggers...

 

[Zaran]

I personally would find it boring, but I actually had a played who really was this. He fell asleep sometimes (he worked midnights) and we literally poked him to wake him up, and this was his reaction every time. It was hilarious.

He doesn't play 4e anymore, because he liked the simplicity of the fighter class from 3e as he was frequently half-asleep during sessions. I suggested ranger, but he said he hates them tree-huggers...

The thing is, they don't need a new build for someone like this. Basic Attacks and class features do just fine with the builds we have. I feel Wizards thinks that the new player is a dumb player and that they can not handle what is pretty much a simple game with all the things you need to know right there on the power.