Damage of two types but immunity to one

[Black Knight Irios]

Er, no. I'm reading the rules literally.
They don't say "if you're immune to all keywords of a power, you're not affected by that power". There's no "fire/cold" keyword -- there's a fire keyword, and if you're immune to it, you don't take any damage with the fire keyword (even if that damage has other keywords). The same for the "cold" keyword.

So your argument is since nowhere is stated that cold and fire damage is a new "keyword/damage type" it must be fire AND cold individually. Therefore, immunity to either reduces damage to 0.
- Sounds reasonable.
-- Feels just not right. The cold immune moster I hit with that spell that deals cold and fire damage takes zero damage even so I had the fire keyword and damage right there. But the again rules are not always like our logic.

 

[mneme]

"A creature that is immune to charm, fear, illusion, poison, or sleep is not affected by the nondamaging effects of a power that has that keyword."

So yeah, they would take damage.

Not damage, effects.

 

[mneme]

So your argument is since nowhere is stated that cold and fire damage is a new "keyword/damage type" it must be fire AND cold individually. Therefore, immunity to either reduces damage to 0.
- Sounds reasonable.
-- Feels just not right. The cold immune moster I hit with that spell that deals cold and fire damage takes zero damage even so I had the fire keyword and damage right there. But the again rules are not always like our logic.

Exactly so (including the "it doesn't feel quite right" bit).

 

[Solvarn]

Not damage, effects.

Per RAW, a creature immune to fear would not be affected by the effects of the power.

So if you had an attack with the Fire and Fear keyword, the creature would take damage, but not be subject to any of the additional effects of the power. Unless it happened to be ongoing damage with a specified damage type. I would argue that the ongoing damage is not related to the fear keyword but is related to the keyword of the type of damage it does.

So for example, a power that had the fear and fire keywords, immobilized until the end of the turn, did 14 damage, with 5 ongoing fire damage (save ends) to a creature immune to fear:

The creature takes 14 damage, 5 ongoing fire damage (save ends). The creature is not immobilized.

This could cause a problem for powers with the cold and fear keywords though, as some of those have similar types of effects when used. Are there are published cold and fear powers? I am pretty confident that this type of issue is why you don't ever see anything that let's a PC add the Fear keyword to their powers.

 

[mneme]

Solvarn, try reading the initial question again.

The are powers with the -Poison- and -Fear- keywords. Those powers typically have effects.

How would you rule those powers against someone who was Immune: Poison?
How about Immune: Fear?

 

[Solvarn]

In the PHB errata, found here, it says to update your PHB page 55 with this text:

Resistance or immunity to one keyword of a power does not protect a target from the power’s other effects. Also, resistance doesn’t reduce damage unless the target has resistance to each type of damage from the attack, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies. For example, a character who has resist 10 lightning and resist 5 thunder who takes 15 lightning and thunder damage takes 10 damage because the resistance value to the combined damage types is limited by the lesser of the two resistances.

So to answer your question, if a power has the Poison AND Fear keyword, per this errata, in order to NOT be affected by the conditions imposed by the power, the creature would have to have both the Poison AND Fear keyword.

A Poison and Fear power immobilizes:

Creature is Immune to Poison: Immobilized, no poison damage
Creature is Immune to Fear: Immobilized, poison damage
Creature is Immune to Poison and Fear: Not immobilized, no poison damage

Fear, like illusion and charm, is a non-damaging keyword. You won't see a creature take charm damage, or illusion damage. These keywords are related to effects only. Powers like these typically do Psychic damage.

Poison, however, is a damaging keyword.

 

[DracoSuave]

Fire/Cold damage is different from both Fire damage and Cold damage, and so immunity to just one has no effect.

But if you do take damage from it, then you are at that point taking damage from fire damage. The cold damage doesn't erase that bit.

Immunity doesn't say 'except if the damage has a second damage type.' It says 'You take no damage.'

Again, confusing the word 'resistance' with 'immunity'. Without the resistance rule, this discussion would be moot! The only rule that could apply has to do with something other than immunity, does not mention immunity, and does not even hint at immunity.

This is the logical equivalent asking if bonuses to saving throws work on attack rolls 'because they both use the same die.'

 

[DracoSuave]

In the PHB errata, found here, it says to update your PHB page 55 with this text:

So to answer your question, if a power has the Poison AND Fear keyword, per this errata, in order to NOT be affected by the conditions imposed by the power, the creature would have to have both the Poison AND Fear keyword.

Poison, however, is a damaging keyword.

Bad example.

The rules for immunity in the PHB3 specifically tell you that immunity to poison specifically makes you immune to non-damaging parts of the power.

If you get hit with a power with the Fear and Poison keywords:

If you are immune to fear, you take damage, but nothing else happens
If you are immune to poison, you do not take any poison damage, no non-damaging parts of the power apply, but you'd take any non-poison damage the power has
If you are immune to fear AND poison, it works exactly as if you were only immune to poison.

Prismatic Ray, for instance, would still deal its fire damage.

The only keyword you can be immune to and avoid -everything- is gaze.

Doesn't happen often.


Also, realistically, how often does immunity to a damage type happen that you'd EVER need to adjudicate this rule? ARE there monsters common enough immune to any damage type other than Poison?

 

[Knowme]

AV, pg 121 - Storm Shield daily power:

"Power (Daily ✦ Lightning, Thunder): Immediate Reaction.
Use this power when you are hit by a melee attack.
Deal 2d6 lightning and thunder damage to the attacker.
(The attacker must have resistance or immunity to both
damage types to reduce or ignore this damage.)"

Since it's written in parenthesis I believe it's reminder text, which should indicate a general rule and not a specific exception.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

AV, pg 121 - Storm Shield daily power:

"Power (Daily ✦ Lightning, Thunder): Immediate Reaction.
Use this power when you are hit by a melee attack.
Deal 2d6 lightning and thunder damage to the attacker.
(The attacker must have resistance or immunity to both
damage types to reduce or ignore this damage.)"

Since it's written in parenthesis I believe it's reminder text, which should indicate a general rule and not a specific exception.

My xp quote should say - you unlurked to say that, have some xp.

Also an excellent point.