D&D 5E "Damage on a miss" poll.

[Mistwell]

Hmmm, that's interesting. Are you asking me or telling me? Better yet would it be more prudent to ask me as opposed to assuming?

I am saying to me you sound bothered. That's how you are coming across to me. If you're not bothered, now you know that to at least a couple folks are getting that impression from how you're writing it. Maybe consider a different tone, or maybe you don't care. But the topic came up

 

[ImperatorK]

Isn't it interesting that the poll was created by an opponent of this ability and there are no options like "I think it's not believable, but it's a nice option, so keep it", or "I think it's believable, but I don't like the mechanic, so scrap it"? And why just "scrap it"? Why not "scrap it/change it"? Why even "scrap it" in the first place? The bias is showing. I don't like that one bit.

Another thing that boggles my mind is the fact that enemies of this ability seriously don't see how unreasonable they are. I mean, basically their whole point is "I don't want it so no one else can have it either". Am I really the only one that finds it stupid? It's not like it is forced upon them or something. It's literally the case of a few friends going to eat a pizza and because one of them doesn't like pepperoni he demands that the others can't have it either. It's silly.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm done with the analogies. They're not helpful when we're talking about a game we all play. I've played with a ton of D&D players, and I am sure you have to. Everyone's bugged by something, but most reasonable players don't refuse to play over one thing. The guys who throw a fit over a single rule It's a red flag. That's my experience anyway.

One single rule, especially one that breaks immersion is enough to ruin the game for some. Damage on a miss is not a balance issue. I can live with balance issues, but immersion breaking issues I cannot. That's one of the main reasons I avoided 4e.

 

[ImperatorK]

That's the thing, tho. There's really no immersion problems whatsoever. It's just lack of imagination, plain and simple. Or maybe this "immersion problem" is just a veil for some other problem, I don't know.
And having your game being ruined by one small thing is a personal problem that's so far from the norm that it's insignificant. I have a problem with a lot of things, but I'm not being a dick about it. Apparently some people can't manage that much.

 

[urLordy]

Another thing that boggles my mind is the fact that enemies of this ability seriously don't see how unreasonable they are. I mean, basically their whole point is "I don't want it so no one else can have it either". Am I really the only one that finds it stupid?

First you came on one of these threads, claiming that "This rule is bad because Fighters Can't Have Nice Things(TM)." which was a bad summation of the prevailing discussion. More recently you came back on claiming that it was "simply spite" which was so ludicrous and unfounded that not one single person responded. Now you're back at it again with "unreasonable" and "stupid". IMO, your posts are the least helpful that I can remember anywhere on this or the other thread because of the raising of hateful bogeymen that as far as I can tell is such a crude caricature so far removed from what people actually are saying that it's not even worth addressing.

 

[ImperatorK]

Some people can't even take a joke. It's sad. OTOH, it's funny how you focus only on two words in my post, completely ignoring the rest of it.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

That's the thing, tho. There's really no immersion problems whatsoever. It's just lack of imagination, plain and simple.

No. In short, damage on a miss means everything has armor, fighter's attacks can never be dodged, parried etc, fighter's have infinite accuracy and always make contact regardless of things like obscurement, invisibility. incorporealness or the target not even being in the square you swung at, and a fighter with 16 STR hits harder with his spork than a giant with 30 STR hits with a tree trunk. THAT is immersion breaking. Sure, I can imagine something happening, but if I just want to make crap up, I may as well toss my dice in the garbage.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Another thing that boggles my mind is the fact that enemies of this ability seriously don't see how unreasonable they are. I mean, basically their whole point is "I don't want it so no one else can have it either". Am I really the only one that finds it stupid? It's not like it is forced upon them or something. It's literally the case of a few friends going to eat a pizza and because one of them doesn't like pepperoni he demands that the others can't have it either. It's silly.

No, it's more like someone doesn't want dog poop on the one pizza at the table and you insist on having it on there anyway. It's not a case of something that doesn't affect them if you use it. It breaks immersion and affects everyone at the table.

 

[Imaro]

I am saying to me you sound bothered. That's how you are coming across to me. If you're not bothered, now you know that to at least a couple folks are getting that impression from how you're writing it. Maybe consider a different tone, or maybe you don't care. But the topic came up

Sooo, you don't want to know whether I really am bothered or not... You'd rather tell me how I "appear" cool, I'm busy right now but I'll be sure to tell you my perceptions of you a little later and let's see if I can get at least one other poster to co-sign...

 

[ImperatorK]

No. In short, damage on a miss means everything has armor, fighter's attacks can never be dodged, parried etc, fighter's have infinite accuracy and always make contact regardless of things like obscurement, invisibility. incorporealness or the target not even being in the square you swung at, and a fighter with 16 STR hits harder with his spork than a giant with 30 STR hits with a tree trunk. THAT is immersion breaking. Sure, I can imagine something happening, but if I just want to make crap up, I may as well toss my dice in the garbage.

No, what it actually can mean is that even when the enemy dodges or parries, the fighter is so skilled with his weapon that he still manages to adjust his grip or swing to always at least graze his opponent ever so slightly.
I don't care about 5ed rules, so I don't know if the rest of your post is even accurate.

No, it's more like someone doesn't want dog poop on the one pizza at the table and you insist on having it on there anyway. It's not a case of something that doesn't affect them if you use it. It breaks immersion and affects everyone at the table.

Lol. You said "poop".
Over half of people in this biased poll don't actually have a problem with this ability, so clearly what you're saying isn't true.

Sooo, you don't want to know whether I really am bothered or not... You'd rather tell me how I "appear" cool, I'm busy right now but I'll be sure to tell you my perceptions of you a little later and let's see if I can get at least one other poster to co-sign...

Dude, you seem upset, so maybe take your own advice and chill a little, eh? Why make it personal?

BTW. I found a blog post that makes some good points about this issue.
http://daegames.blogspot.com/2013/11/d-next-miss-conceptions.html