Damage Reduction Hierarchy ???

Spiral Architecht

First Post
The DMG v3 has a hierarchy of special weapons, listing Silver and other special metals as the weakest, and +5 weapons as the strongest. Following this hierarchy a +1 sword, being stronger than silver, would overcome damage reduction for a Lycanthrope. I don't see this same chart in the 3.5 DMG.

My question: Is this hierarchy still in place in the new rules? If not, why not? If so, is there a reference in the DMG or SRD?
 

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No. One of the major changes in 3.5 was to delete that hierarchy that existed from 1st-3rd Edition. The rationale was sort-of along the lines of "when fighting lycanthropes we want you to really need silver". Others can probably give more insight to the theory behind it.
 

No such hierarchy exists in 3.5.

If you want to overcome the Damage Reduction of a werewolf, you need a silver weapon. Even a +5 weapon won't work if it isn't silver.

As it stood in 3.0, Damage reduction was either you weapon is good enough, or you can't hurt the creature with weapons. Now, DR is mostly based on Type and subtype, but it's usually small enough that you can do some damage to the monster even if you don't have the proper type of weapon.
 

arscott described how it works in 3.5 pretty well. I just want to chime in as a dm and say that 3.5 DR is much, much cooler than earlier DR/+x or better weapon to hit stuff.
 

Also, having DR X/something no longer makes you automatically able to defeat the same DR with natural weapons - two werewolves going at it would have a hard time hurting each other. The exceptions are DR X/magic and DR X/epic. In addition, having an alignment subtype makes you able to defeat that type of DR with both your natural and wielded weapons.

But in order to defeat material-based or damagetype-based DR, you need to use the right tools.
 


The 3.5 seems too easy to overcome in many cases. It also seems unreal that 2 beasts of equal strenght cannot hurt eachother.. Think what would happen if we as humans didn't have a chance to kill eachother with normal means..
Welcome to Valhalla! fight and get rerived... oh no nvm.. you don't even get hurt anyway.

Some minor demon is just as easy to damage (DR wise) as a Balor... and a balor is just as easy to damage as some über demon with a CR of 60 or higher..
3.0 handle this way better
 

Goolpsy said:
The 3.5 seems too easy to overcome in many cases. It also seems unreal that 2 beasts of equal strenght cannot hurt eachother.. Think what would happen if we as humans didn't have a chance to kill eachother with normal means..
Welcome to Valhalla! fight and get rerived... oh no nvm.. you don't even get hurt anyway.

Some minor demon is just as easy to damage (DR wise) as a Balor... and a balor is just as easy to damage as some über demon with a CR of 60 or higher..
3.0 handle this way better


Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.

Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage.

Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus.

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature.

When a damage reduction entry has a dash (–) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction.

A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction.

A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.

Remember that DR subtracts from damage applied it doesn't mwan the creature can't be harmed. So a creture like a Balor has a real good chance of putting a serious hurt on a lesser demon because it's attacks are so powerful.
 


Jdvn1 said:
I thought there was one hierarchy in place--Epic overcomes Magic. No?

Really epic is just a +6 magic weapon so not really. It is a more restricted version of magic. That is an epic weapon is a magic weapon and thus will bypass X/magic but a magic weapon is not an epic one so it won't bypass X/epic.
 

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