Damn it! Han shot first!!!!

[jonesy]

I'd actually be interested to see someone film the first rough starkiller draft. The one with Queen Leia and Sith Knight Valorum.

I just wish he'd stop with the whole "that's how I always wrote it" stuff. The first movie was just one movie, the second movie was the second episode right up to the point where he had the idea to morph Vader and Father Skywalker into the same character, then he had the idea of the three trilogies while writing the new Vader background as the prequels, which he later completely revamped, several times, and now recently he's been claiming that he always intended the saga to be just six movies and he never wanted sequels. He's been doing it longer than I've been alive, for Windy's sake.

 

[Relique du Madde]

I suppose you and I (and others, of course), don't see the presented "evidence" the same way.

Why did I post originally and continue to post? I already answered that one. I find the vitriol that a segment of fandom has towards Lucas ridiculous and irritating. It's a pet peeve of mine. Why did Relique post? Not to put words in his mouth, but I imagine because he finds George Lucas ridiculous and irritating.

You are sort of putting words in my mouth.

I find this whole issue infuriating especially since this picture exists.

And because Lucas keeps editing the scene..

Original 1995 laser disk and 1997 Special edition
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qWoTWd_nRw]Han shot first - starwars (Original vs Special Edition) (laserdisc 1995 and 1997) - YouTube[/ame]

Note: ONE blaster shot is heard in the original and Han never dodged!

2004
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--vWcFDonTI]Star Wars Ep. IV: A New Hope - Han Solo vs. Greedo - YouTube[/ame]

Wait... Han's reaction time got faster and he dodged??!?!?!

2010 Blue-Ray Dvd
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEX6QJ-zlQ]'Greedo Shoots First' from Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (Blu-Ray Clip) - YouTube[/ame]

Holy crap! Double shoot! Wait... this wasn't how I remembered things...


If his intent was to have the scene play out like it did in the Special Edition and beyond, then his edits wouldn't have been needed since the original footage would reflect his vision.

 

[Banshee16]

Lucas claims that when filming "A New Hope", after his ideas evolved into his shooting screenplay, that he intended the scene to portray Greedo shooting first. The scene certainly didn't end up this way. Why? Lucas worked with a lot of other writers, directors, and the multitudes of folks who are necessary to bring a movie to life . . . perhaps his intention got mislaid during the normal process of movie making. Or perhaps he DID change his mind later, and decided the scene would work better by changing it to Greedo shooting first, and then convinced himself that's what he always had wanted. It's certainly possible.

When was the interview when Lucas made this claim? I haven't really followed the issue that much, but I *am* aware that much of Lucas' later work is clumsy compared to his initial stabs at the movies.

When he made those statements is entirely relevant, due to the malleable nature of memory. If he said this 5 years ago, it's not nearly as credible as something he said/wrote in 1985. It's been many years at this p oint, and frankly, memories change.

I personally think he's tinkering, and his *perception* of what he thought 30 years ago has changed. But unless we have actual written references to compare, I think it's a moot point. But a current interview is meaningless, for all intents and purposes.

Banshee

 

[Kzach]

For the record, I really shouldn't post whilst drunk but on the flip-side, I was surprisingly coherent even if I don't really understand what "...juxtaposition of your value judgements..." actually means.

Annnnnyyyway, to sum up my argument, Lucas' sole reason for change and making the prequels is to make money off the franchise. It was never about original vision or creative control. The fans made the franchise the mega-success that it is DESPITE Lucas, and instead of appreciating the fans and respecting them and their support, he slaps in the face with these changes solely to cater to a new audience and thus milk a new generation of wallets. And then on top of that he spits in their faces by claiming a thin-skin over all the validly levelled criticism.

Screw him and his franchise. Han shot first.

 

[Mark CMG]

I personally think he's tinkering, (. . .)

Tinkeirng, fiddling, tampering, meddling, etc. I'm just curious as to why he's doing it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

For the record, I really shouldn't post whilst drunk but on the flip-side, I was surprisingly coherent even if I don't really understand what "...juxtaposition of your value judgements..." actually means.

Annnnnyyyway, to sum up my argument, Lucas' sole reason for change and making the prequels is to make money off the franchise. It was never about original vision or creative control. The fans made the franchise the mega-success that it is DESPITE Lucas, and instead of appreciating the fans and respecting them and their support, he slaps in the face with these changes solely to cater to a new audience and thus milk a new generation of wallets. And then on top of that he spits in their faces by claiming a thin-skin over all the validly levelled criticism.

Screw him and his franchise. Han shot first.

He certainly is good at the marketing and money-making stuff. But I also have the feeling that he may really believe he is making the films like he wants them to be. Maybe his opinion how the films need to be is changing over time as well, which makes things even less coherent, I suppose.
At least on some level, I woudn't be surprised if all the little compromises and concenssions he made during the creation of the originals are slowly getting taken out, as far as he can do it.

He doesn't consider that some of the compromises and the concessions he made have artistic value and helped the movies. He's a control freak. That's why the Prequels were CGI fests and the green/blue screen was the only set he cared for - it gave him the control he desired. At the same time, while he's a control freak, he doesn't seem to be a perfectionist - as he didn't seem to bother in getting really good takes from the actors, and really working out the dialog. Or maybe he really thinks that's how people should talk and act?

 

[Starman]

Or maybe he really thinks that's how people should talk and act?

I don't like this thread. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like the rest of ENWorld where everything is soft and smooth.

 

[Janx]

I think the evidence has already been posted. The screenplay snippets, the video snippets, and the filming dates show that one of the LAST things he did during filming was the Greedo scene.

It's not like he shot it on the first day, forgot how he wanted it when he got back to the studio to assemble a movie from ALL the film. The facts say as the guy calling the shots, that scene was EXACTLY the way Lucas wanted it when it hit the theatre the first time.

I can only speculate as to Lucas's intent. I don't think what he says lines up with the facts of the situation. That doesn't mean he is deliberately trying to decieve us. it is obvious that he has changed his mind on what he intends for the film NOW.

I suspect the fan ire is rooted in the fact that as a kid, you saw one version of the film. Now, you cannot buy that film and share it with your kids. It has been altered from not just the way you remember it, but the way it actually WAS.

Furthermore, Lucas is making money of these changes. Just like Director's Cut films, it draws a certain amount of re-sell value to people who bought the original and were strong enough fans to want to see what the difference was. If Lucas did not alter the films, the amount of money he would attract probably be reduced. Why pay $10 to see a movie you saw 30 years ago and own on DVD?

My own biases: I don't own any Star Wars movies. I'd never seen the first ones in the theatre when they came out (I'm old enough to have). I had the THX release in VHS. I don't miss it. I wasn't impressed with the new ones. But then, I'm a Star Trek fan...

 

[billd91]

It's not like he shot it on the first day, forgot how he wanted it when he got back to the studio to assemble a movie from ALL the film. The facts say as the guy calling the shots, that scene was EXACTLY the way Lucas wanted it when it hit the theatre the first time.

I can only speculate as to Lucas's intent. I don't think what he says lines up with the facts of the situation. That doesn't mean he is deliberately trying to decieve us. it is obvious that he has changed his mind on what he intends for the film NOW.

If he'd come clean about that, though the changes would still irritate me, they'd come short of pissing me off. But he doesn't come clean. He stacks lie upon lie, constantly revising his story on Star Wars and what he says he meant or intended. That's what galls me most. It's like he forgets he leaves a trail of the things he does and says.

Maybe he has a terrible memory. If so, he should come clean on that. That would explain a whole heck of a lot. Personally, I don't think that's it. I think it's more self-delusion on his part. He's drunk his own Kool-Aid.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If he'd come clean about that, though the changes would still irritate me, they'd come short of pissing me off. But he doesn't come clean. He stacks lie upon lie, constantly revising his story on Star Wars and what he says he meant or intended. That's what galls me most. It's like he forgets he leaves a trail of the things he does and says.

Maybe he has a terrible memory. If so, he should come clean on that. That would explain a whole heck of a lot. Personally, I don't think that's it. I think it's more self-delusion on his part. He's drunk his own Kool-Aid.

Another thought had occured to me - maybe he's old. Or sick. Kinda getting delusional? I hope not, because that would be terribly for him and his family.
But the way he pretends that he always had one, grand vision of Star Wars and that never changed just doesn't seem rational, considering the evidence against it.