D&D 5E Dark Sun doesn't actually need Psionics

[Snarf Zagyg]

Dark Sun was official in two editions (2e and 4e); it was also referred to in 3e, but did not have official product.

Looking at the official releases in terms of the two campaign settings (2e, 4e):

2e: After references to pisonics, and psionicists as a class, in several places, the rulebook makes this explicit:
A Note About Psionics Dark Sun is a world of powerful psionics. Every player character has at least one psionic talent, as do many of the non-player characters and monsters. A thorough understanding of The Complete Psionics Handbook is required for full enjoyment of any DARK SUN™ campaign.

There are numerous alterations in the rules regarding psionics. You are required to have the additional handbook. NPCs have it as well. There are new and additional rules and proficiencies regarding psionics. It is baked into the lore of the game (such as psionic contests in arenas). There are additional spells to handle the fact that psionics are baked into the setting. There are multiple references to how common it is, and how (unlike magic) it does not degrade the environment.

Saying that, in 2e, psionics are not a part of the setting is like saying, "How about Gamma World, but no mutants." Sure. Why not. You can do anything you want, but it's not Dark Sun.

4e: Should I keep going? Under the Gods are Silent, it says, "In the absence of divine influence, other powers have come to prominence in the world. Psionic power is well known and widely practiced on Athas; even unintelligent desert monsters can have deadly psionic abilities." It has all sorts of rules for psionic power and "the Way." Also, it has a whole section about how psionics is prevalent on Athas, and how it used not just as a weapon, but even for commercial disputes.

Again, psionics is woven into the base setting assumptions of Athas and Dark Sun.

This is kind of a silly thing; you can say that whatever you want isn't "core" if you're pitching a concept ("How about Dark Sun, but in SPACE!!!!") but Dark Sun is completely interwoven with psionics as written and presented in official materials.

It is impossible to read the campaign setting and say to yourself, "Hey, you know what doesn't matter in Dark Sun? Psionics."

 

[Umbran]

The theme that magic was absurdly selfish and destructive. Magic was the lazy way to do everything.

...Magic is the easy way out because it gives you power without effort. And it destroys all life around you to accomplish it's goals.

These remain if you drop psionics.

You just don't have a different magic system to replace magic. So, the hard way becomes blood, sweat, and tears, rather than thinking really hard until something magical happens.

 

[Bacon Bits]

These remain if you drop psionics.

You just don't have a different magic system to replace magic. So, the hard way becomes blood, sweat, and tears, rather than thinking really hard until something magical happens.

No, you don't need to have a different magic system, but having it highlights how bad the evil magic system is if you do.

Imagine you have a button. Each time you press it you get $1,000, but some small part of the world dies for 100 years every time you push it. This is clearly a horrible thing to do, but it's not hard to imagine circumstances where you might have a greater good by pushing that button.

Now imagine you have two buttons. The first button works exactly like above and produces $1,000 each time you push it. The second button doesn't kill anything, but it only produces $1 every time you push it. Now how easy is it to justify pushing the first button?

 

[MGibster]

It's been more than twenty twenty-five years since I've played Dark Sun. When I think about how great the setting is the presence of psionics does not enter into the equation. I never thought psionics were necessary in Dark Sun.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I reiterate, I played and ran Dark Sun when it first came out and we barely used psionics. It still felt perfectly like Dark Sun.

 

[Iry]

Now imagine you have two buttons. The first button works exactly like above and produces $1,000 each time you push it. The second button doesn't kill anything, but it only produces $1 every time you push it. Now how easy is it to justify pushing the first button?

Both buttons produce $1,000. Even in the novels, Psionics was never really important to the setting. There were characters who were powerful with Psionics, and the gameline expected people to know about Psionics, but it has no narrative importance. It's just a thing people have. It was never even "the hard work path to power" since everyone in Athas has some amount of psionic power.

Don't get me wrong. In an earlier post I mentioned that psychic mutants is a trope that appears in lots of post apocalyptic stories - and Dark Sun takes inspiration from those stories (including psychic mutants). But honestly? The word is interchangeable. It's just magic by another name.

Similarly, I could replace Magic with Psionics in the PHB and basically nothing would change.

 

[Charlaquin]

I would say that one of the central themes of Dark Sun is how the planet has become a harsh and seemingly alien world from the one it once was with creatures evolving bizarre mutations to survive that. I always saw psionics as factoring into that theme.

I wouldn’t really call that a theme; more of a trope. And certainly a trope that suits the setting well, don’t get me wrong!

I think psychic powers, while not strictly necessary to the themes of Dark Sun, are important for setting it’s tone. Dark Sun has elements of Weird fiction that I think it would feel lacking without. That said, I don’t think psionics, with all the baggage that term carries, is (are? Psionics is/are so inconsistent about when it/they is/are linguistically singular or plural) necessary. You can capture the Weird fiction tone without a dedicated psionics subsystem. You can have monsters, subclasses, feats, etc. with bespoke psychic-themed abilities and it will work just fine.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

What else? How about more recent WoTC stuff?

"Athas in the Dark Sun Campaign setting is the iconic example of a world where psionics is common."
UA, Psionics and the Mystic

"Psionics is more common in worlds where the bounds of reality have been twisted and warped. The realm of Athas in the Dark Sun campaign setting is the prime example of a world where psionics is common. The gods are absent, magic has been triswted into an ecological scourge, and the common threads that bind many worlds of D&D have been sundered."
UA, Psionics & the Mystic, Take 2

So even in referring to possible material, psionics is always associated with Athas. Always. It's the one campaign setting that has psionics, always. There has never been an official Athas that doesn't have psionics by default. It's baked into the lore and the rules.

 

[Charlaquin]

It seems like a stronger case could be made to exclude arcane magic from Dark Sun. Arcane magic screwed things up for the world, so it is no longer on the table as an option for PCs. Arcane magic is thus only the purview of rare NPCs, such as Dragon Kings, and this could be easily incorporated into stat blocks without needing arcane magic classes.

Now this, I would say, would harm the setting’s themes. Arcane magic destroyed the world, you can’t have Dark Sun without it, any more than you can have Fallout without nuclear weapons. Players don’t need to have access to it, but it needs to exist in the setting.

 

[Ovinomancer]

What else? How about more recent WoTC stuff?

"Athas in the Dark Sun Campaign setting is the iconic example of a world where psionics is common."
UA, Psionics and the Mystic

"Psionics is more common in worlds where the bounds of reality have been twisted and warped. The realm of Athas in the Dark Sun campaign setting is the prime example of a world where psionics is common. The gods are absent, magic has been triswted into an ecological scourge, and the common threads that bind many worlds of D&D have been sundered."
UA, Psionics & the Mystic, Take 2

So even in referring to possible material, psionics is always associated with Athas. Always. It's the one campaign setting that has psionics, always. There has never been an official Athas that doesn't have psionics by default. It's baked into the lore and the rules.

This is argument by tradition -- "it's always had it, so it must be there." The fact that the psionics don't do any narrative lifting in the setting (you have the exact same setting and feel without psionics as you do with them) shows that psionics have been a present layer but not important to the actual setting. They sit on top, not entwinned within.

Secondly, to your previous post, psionics in 2e are vastly different than psionics in 4e, both in mechanics and in heft. Psionics in 4e is a slightly different mechanic to other power sources and a different flavor. I think that citing 4e as a reason psionics are important to Athas shows up how weak the argument is -- the entire structure of psionics was changed and yet the setting is still very recognizable and the same. If you can completely redo the structure of psionics and not have to make other changes to the setting to accommodate, well, that's kinda proving my point.

Finally, it's good to see you back lowkey13, even with the name change.