Dave Noonan Responds about Wizard Implements

[Imaro]

I posted this in another thread bu thought I'd cross post since it belongs here as well...

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say these "orders" are probably like the different force traditions in SW saga edition. If that is the case they will be slightly more than just fluff, but not so integrated as to be unremovable or unchangeable with some work. Basically in SW a force tradition gives you access to cetain talents/feats that are unique to that tradition, and are generally geared towards reinforcing the particular flavor of that group. Now my thoughts on that...

It will definitely allow them to publish more splat-books with a bunch of traditions in them, and certainly adds another fiddly bit for players to mess around with. As far as it eliminating the PrC's, that wasn't the case in Star Wars. The traditions only deal with specific feats/talents...in other words PrC's still dealt with class abilities, progrssion for spells etc. So basically it allows another avenue to make more options for, but doesn't eliminate or streamline anything else.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Although I hope none of this spells the end of illusionists and necromancers (and to a lesser extent, all the other less-cool specialists), I'm already trying to figure out how to set up these groups based on existing power structures in my home game.

Obviously, Ptolus' Invisible Pyramid and maybe the Sorn will be traditions. Redhurst graduates will be distinct in their own ways, as will the Freeport wizards guild (I sure hope they got a good name finally in the Pirate's Guide) and the college I've referenced in Tarsis.

 

[fuindordm]

Snipped a lot, all good points though.

EDIT: Suffice to say, I hope that Traditions are analogous to Deities, not to Domains.

Seconded. And it would be really nice if David Noonan could send us a one-liner to that effect.

In my mind, the deity/domain system was one of the best innovations of 3E. That is a really elegant way of injecting flavor into a class.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Yes, I regret going from Dave's comment directly to an entire book of traditions and implements. Mea culpa.

And I strongly suspect Traditions = Deities, in which case the naming convention is just fine.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It makes me think that whatever underlying system they're using for wizard implements is being used for other things too.

Good point - and this makes me think about that design diary about fighters choosing different weapons so that they could learn special tricks associated with those weapons - remember the armour piercing spear, the flurrying longsword and the crushing hammer or whatever they were?

Perhaps the same system (whatever it is) that underlies that fighter configuration could also underlie the wizards implements too?

Cheers

 

[el-remmen]

Well from my point of view, this is the first thing about 4E I really like.

I leave all the crunchy stuff in better hands, but if tomes, wands and orbs replace the need material components and empower spells (or at least better them). I find my detail-oriented simulationist gene satisfied by their inclusion, enough to not miss bat guano.

- El-Always plays with material components-Remmen

 

[Snapdragyn]

Perhaps the same system (whatever it is) that underlies that fighter configuration could also underlie the wizards implements too?

Well, we did see that playtest where they fought a fire mage or something, didn't we? I'm thinking that the tradition (already forget the name) that focuses on fire was probably what that caster was using. It seemed from the way it was written up in the playtest that this was more than just a prefered spell selection, but actually meant something - perhaps what spells it could cast, or the power of them, or things it could do with them different than another caster using the same spell.

 

[Patlin]

Dave Noonan just made my list.

I've seen you post this before... is there some utility in having a list of people who use this particular word?

I like domains generally, but they were lousy contents for splatbooks. Only one class gets them, they only get two, and they have to pick them at level 1... no domain offered in a splatbook was of any use for an existing character.

 

[Rechan]

Well, we did see that playtest where they fought a fire mage or something, didn't we? I'm thinking that the tradition (already forget the name) that focuses on fire was probably what that caster was using. It seemed from the way it was written up in the playtest that this was more than just a prefered spell selection, but actually meant something - perhaps what spells it could cast, or the power of them, or things it could do with them different than another caster using the same spell.

In one playtest they fought a fire priest who summoned fire snakes. And then they fought a fire sorcerer who turned into a snake.

 

[D'karr]

Well, it is very possible that these Traditions work like the Disciplines from Book of Nine Swords. If that is the case, then the At Will, Per Encounter and Per Day abilities of the Wizard could be analogous to the Maneuvers and Stances of Bo9S. The Per Day abilities would still be selected from a list of spells. If this is any indication, then each Tradition might have preferred implements that are analogous to the Associated Weapons from each Martial Discipline.

Just a thought.