DDI vs WoW

[Xorn]

Then address that SEVEN people have to buy the DM tools, and the online magazines, and the rules database. Not ONE person. I already said that it's a good deal for ME.

What about my 6 players? They don't give two about Dungeon, Dragon, or the rules database. DDI is going to be fantastic for DMs. But MOST PLAYERS don't need anything offered by DDI except the VTT and the mini creator (and listing that separate from the VTT itself is stupid, too).

PLUS, it's NOT $10 a month if you want actual 3D minis, which is the whole gimmick.

I've never said that WoW vs DDI was valid--I said it was ludicrous to make the comparison--I'm talking about DDI (with everything) is moronic. The PLAYERS have to pay for it too, and at that moment, it became horridly overpriced.

The whole point is that the GameTable needs to be completely cut out of DDI. It should be a standalone one time purchase software. Server and client versions. Discount tag in the PHB and DMGs. Save all the DDI crap for people who CARE and would actually use it... like DMs.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

As far as the value of DDI goes, that is purely subjective. I personally feel its a fantastic value for the money. I subscribed to Dragon and Dungeon when they were paper magazines, would you argue that those were not worth the money?

Dragon and Dungeon weren't worth the money to me, when they were on paper. Dragon has been hit or miss for years (IMHO), and worth only an occasional impulse purchase. Dungeon hit its peak (again, IMHO), around issue 30 or 40, and has been in very slow but steady decline since. That was one of the reasons I let my subscription lapse. (Buying a three year subscription just before they went monthly, and not being happy with the way they kept changing the terms during that run, also didn't help.) Sure, it's all subjective. But for DDI to be worth it, both mags have to be worth it, as a necessary but not sufficient prereq. That's a big hurdle for a new electronic gaming tool that depends in large part on network effects to realize its true potential. In other words, the more things that I see that will make the DDI not worth it to some segment of potential customers, the less it is worth it to me, because fewer people will be using it.

The whole point is that the GameTable needs to be completely cut out of DDI. It should be a standalone one time purchase software. Server and client versions. Discount tag in the PHB and DMGs. Save all the DDI crap for people who CARE and would actually use it... like DMs.

QFT. In addition, there are no good technical reasons for making game table run only on WotC servers. None. Sure, you want to do RPGA-like events, where cheating could be an issue, or other such pickup games? Then yeah, the option to run on WotC servers is good--same reason MMORPGs work that way. But for a game that a DM runs with friends? No, it's an impediment, designed for no other reason than to "enhance" the appeal of the subscription service. That is, it's a design predicated more on separating people from their cash, than providing a useful application. Don't get me wrong. That's a financial decision, and WotC is free to make it. I'm free to tell them to stick it. But, it's yet another impediment to creating a network effect.

If you deliberately set out to design and market an application to take advantage of a network effect, you couldn't do much worse than the DDI thus far. It's like someone wants to kill it. That's pretty darn sad. A monkey throwing darts at a board with decisions on it would have produced a better strategic plan, as far as network effects are concerned.

 

[Dragonblade]

Then address that SEVEN people have to buy the DM tools, and the online magazines, and the rules database. Not ONE person. I already said that it's a good deal for ME.

What about my 6 players? They don't give two about Dungeon, Dragon, or the rules database. DDI is going to be fantastic for DMs. But MOST PLAYERS don't need anything offered by DDI except the VTT and the mini creator (and listing that separate from the VTT itself is stupid, too).

PLUS, it's NOT $10 a month if you want actual 3D minis, which is the whole gimmick.

I've never said that WoW vs DDI was valid--I said it was ludicrous to make the comparison--I'm talking about DDI (with everything) is moronic. The PLAYERS have to pay for it too, and at that moment, it became horridly overpriced.

The whole point is that the GameTable needs to be completely cut out of DDI. It should be a standalone one time purchase software. Server and client versions. Discount tag in the PHB and DMGs. Save all the DDI crap for people who CARE and would actually use it... like DMs.

True, I'll concede that its all or nothing with DDI. So in your case, your players may not find it worth the money if all they want is the game table.

Even so, I still wouldn't have a problem with it. If one can spend $10 a month seeing a two hour movie, why would it be unreasonable to spend that much in a month to play D&D? A much more satisfying pastime.

 

[Xorn]

True, I'll concede that its all or nothing with DDI. So in your case, your players may not find it worth the money if all they want is the game table.

Even so, I still wouldn't have a problem with it. If one can spend $10 a month seeing a two hour movie, why would it be unreasonable to spend that much in a month to play D&D? A much more satisfying pastime.

And you make a good point here. I have a big-boy job, I can afford $10 a month. But it stands to be said that I don't go to movies--because I can't stand paying that much money for 2-3 hours and a crabby tub of popcorn. NetFlix takes care of my movie-watching needs.

But the point stands--is $10/month (or even $15) that bad?

It's just hard NOT to compare it to my VTT of choice, when I have to convince all my players to pay, too. (Actually I don't have to, and won't, we're very happy with our VTT.) It's hard not to compare the cost to an MMO. I pay $15 a month to play WoW--and I'm happy with what I get out of it. 60-90 hours of play a month, with my fiance and friends. But you're right, with a big-boy job, I could afford to pay for DDI; it's just the principle of the matter. Even if I bought an upgraded VTT every year, I'm paying $15 a year for my VTT, and $120-150 for DDI's VTT, that's basically "rented". So for me, the question is:

Is it worth $105-135 per year for Dungeon, Dragon, and the Rules Database, if every one of my players has to buy it just to get the VTT part?

That's the disconnect for me.

On this note of astronomical compared costs--a prominent VTT programmer proposed the idea that DDI Gametable could be intended to fail. A far-fetched idea of course, but all we've seen is a few mock-ups for a convention, with almost no information following. And since that time, VTT sales have skyrocketed. I actually think it would be good for DDI's GameTable to fall flat on it's face! A large volume of people waiting for D&D GameTable decided not to wait, and picked up an existing VTT. (My group included.)

And even though most people are just waiting (I assume), they now KNOW about their VTT options, because of all the VTT people talking about, "We already play online!"

You would have to have balls made of tungsten to make a marketing attempt like that, and while I doubt this is WotC's intent, they have single-handedly driven up VTT sales across the board since their announcement.