DDXP: When Anti's become Pro's

[apiratto]

i suppose i was pretty gung-ho at first, and have since shifted to wary, somewhat disappointed, but still basically on the bandwagon.

in the end, i think 4e does a good job of fixing the big problems in 3e, but in the process seems to have created some new ones, though these are more play-style and game-world-logic problems rather than game-balance and complexity-explosion problems.

my main gripe, aside from the 6-hour full-heal, is how exclusively combat-related the character abilities seem to be (and moreover, almost all seem to involve dealing damage or preventing it). i don't feel qualified to make any judgments at this stage, but i'm a little worried based on those recent wizard spell scans.

my main hope is that there will be eventually be systems in place for representing character abilities in a robust way outside of combat, in a manner that involves some customizability, division of labor, and a sense of advancement. the "improved social encounters rules" sound promising enough, but i'm worried the out-of-combat rules and ability spreads will be less robust than i'm hoping for.

it's wait and see for now, but i'm a sucker and am sticking with my preorder.

 

[Primal]

Oh lord. Lizard, FTW. That is some funny stuff.

Ok, let me reiterate:

How can a "different version of the same ruleset" prevent someone from writing "the stories they like to write"?

Yep.

W.P.

A different version of the same ruleset? It's a whole new game, not just a new edition. You can "update" your 3E GURPS PCs into 4E GURPS pretty easily, but can you do that the same in D&D?

I'd say that since we're speaking of being able to write the same kind of "stories" (adventures) you could in 3E, I can understand Paizo's concerns very well. For example, what if my setting has a lot of Bard and Druid NPCs and Specialist Wizard organizations -- how would you mechanically stat them in 4E?

 

[Incenjucar]

A different version of the same ruleset? It's a whole new game, not just a new edition. You can "update" your 3E GURPS PCs into 4E GURPS pretty easily, but can you do that the same in D&D?

I'd say that since we're speaking of being able to write the same kind of "stories" (adventures) you could in 3E, I can understand Paizo's concerns very well. For example, what if my setting has a lot of Bard and Druid NPCs and Specialist Wizard organizations -- how would you mechanically stat them in 4E?

:\

Learn patience?

 

[billd91]

Based on what I've been reading here, the 4E game is looking more like an occasional board-mini game for us to play rather than a campaign. So I'm sliding further into the skeptical direction.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It was really exciting to follow DDXP online, but I was a bit unimpressed by the sample PCs. I don't want to play any of them. So my hitherto perma-boner for 4e has drooped a little.

 

[Glyfair]

Isn't that pretty much the same as getting turned off by their experiences with the game, though? Even if they think it's a decent game but not for them, it's still a question of their experience with it causing them to say "pass."

I was flipping channels tonight and came upon a Bob Dylan concert. I understand he is a legend and why he is a legend. However, there is no way I could listen to an album by him. I just don't appreciate he vocal performance(yes, I know it's an intentional tribute to Woody Guthrie).

In no way do I think that "Bob Dylan is bad." I think he is a legend. That doesn't mean he is for me, on the other hand. In fact, I could listen to an album of his songs performed by other people (say having Springsteen doing a cover album).

In the same way, just because someone recognizes that D&D 4E isn't for them doesn't mean they think it is bad. They just recognize that it's not what they are looking for in an RPG. If there was the perfect RPG, then we would need a selection, everyone would be playing the same one.

 

[Minicol]

I was VERY skeptical abotu 4e, but after reading the reviews and the posts, and the charcters, I am looking forward to giving it a shot, with an adventure made by a fellow ENworlder.

The game will of course have flaws, but overall it appears to be much better than 3.x

Good for you, but I am even more anti after reading the reports.

 

[Andalusian]

I was flipping channels tonight and came upon a Bob Dylan concert. I understand he is a legend and why he is a legend. However, there is no way I could listen to an album by him. I just don't appreciate he vocal performance(yes, I know it's an intentional tribute to Arlo Guthrie).

You must mean Woody Guthrie. The only thing Arlo is remembered for is "Alice's Restaurant".


I agree with your main point, though. 4E seems to have succeeded in terms of making combat more interesting, but there are several things which I don't agree with, to the point where I'm starting to feel like this isn't going to be the game for me.

Unless, of course, there's all sorts of optional rules in the DMG we haven't heard about yet to allow me to customize the game more to my liking without having to invent my own house rules.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The fluff of 4E is something I absolutely love. I could work with the Great Wheel or Greyhawk (and I liked eve parts of them), but the new fluff is different, but in a very good way.

The rules so far look very good. But there are still some concerns:

- If it didn't even got stronger, the miniature focus certainly wasn't reduced. We're using a battle mat and minis, and it works well for our group. It's not really an issue for us. But if I ever want to make up a new group, it hasn't gotten anything easier with 4E.

- I am not seeing the "easy-switch" for classes. Again, to introduce beginners into 4E, it might be harder. "I attack. I hit. I deal x points of damage" is a boring routine in the long run, but I think it helps making it easy for beginners. I am not seeing a class that will make it so easy for first level characters. On the other hand, other games have the same issue. If you demand a first time player to create a Shadowrun character, he will probably be overwhelmed by the options and can easily make bad choices. (What - you didn't put any ranks in Etiqette? Where's your fixer connection? You didn't take Dodge or any firearms skill?)

Otherwise, everything looks interesting. I am eager to play the game, so I stay in the pro-4 camp.

 

[Blackrat]

Well I haven't read nearly everything that has come from DDXP but I must say those tidbits I've seen have put me from "hoping a good new system" to "fearing it'll suck". The saving roll system, if I understood it correctly is one of those I now dislike: Roll d20, on 11+ you succeed. What?

But as it was, it still is: I'm going to wait untill I can read the finished product untill I make up my mind.