Dead in a Blade Barrier, what happens to the stuff?

[Spatzimaus]

Even though I'm in the "objects don't get saves if the spell doesn't allow it" camp, I thought up a simple way to rationalize it for this one specific spell (NOT as a general rule) that could make everyone happy:

An unattended, unconstrained magical item in a Blade Barrier makes a save each turn (bonus = 2 + casterlevel/2, doesn't matter if you call it Reflex, Fortitude, or Will, they're all the same for unattended objects). If it fails the save, it takes the usual damage (minus its hardness). If it succeeds, the item is deflected out of the area of the blades.

If the item is shielded in any way by another object (for example, if the ring was in the pocket of a corpse), the item does not start taking damage until the "container" is destroyed, at which point it makes saves as normal.
If the item is both exposed and constrained (example: the cloak and backpack the corpse is wearing) it doesn't get any saves until the constraining object is destroyed but DOES take damage in the meantime.

So, your magical sword or ring gets chipped a bit from being whacked by flying blades, but eventually ricochets off enough of them to fly out of the area. A mundane sword wouldn't survive the process.

To those comparing this to Mordenkainen's Disjunction: unattended items are easy to destroy, even magical ones, just under the normal "strike an object" rules. Under the core rules I could just as easily Fireball the corpse to destroy all the items on it; they're now unattended, and all are within the area of effect, so even with their saving throws most will be destroyed.
MD can be used in much more useful ways, though, like NOT having to wait until the guy is dead.

 

[Dingleberry]

Because that's what generally happens with damaging spells with a duration. Unless the spell specifically states you take no damage past the 1st round your in the area of effect I'd say any damaging spell with a duration continues to cause damage.

While that is certainly logical, I looked up the few non-instantaneous area effect damage-dealing spells I could remember off the top of my head (e.g., acid fog, cloudkill, wall of fire, wall of thorns, whirlwind) and all of them specifically speak to taking damage "every round" (or similar) or per distance traveled. Given that, I'd say the default should go the other way: a spell only causes damage every round if it says it causes damage every round - which blade barrier doesn't.

 

[jlhorner1974]

This is so funny. What started off with an innocent question became the thread that wouldn't DIE!

It's not like this stuff comes up a lot, but at the very least, I think everyone can agree that in some fashion, this thread has pointed out ambiguities in the rules as written that would have an important effect on gameplay.

Blade Barrier is just a strange spell. It's very cool, but all of its quirks put it in a class of its own:
(1) Whether you are allowed to save or not relates on how the victim moves with respect to its area of effect
(2) It does a lot of damage, but it has a duration (and a long one at that, especially for a damage dealng spell)
(3) It does not specify what happens to objects other than creatures in its area of effect, although this seems to be quite an important piece of information

I get the impression that the designers know in their heads exactly how it's supposed to work but forgot to tell us half of it...

It would be nice if someone at WotC errata'd this or at least put it in the FAQ (I know you guys are out there.)

 

[Stalker0]

You know I kind of agree with Dingleberry about teh doing damage every round thing. I've always thought it was obvious that you would take damage every round, but looking back on that that's not really said. It doesn't say you take damage for just standing there.

 

[jlhorner1974]

Yeah.. there are quite a few gaping omissions in the description for Blade Barrier that should be there, don't you think?

If I carefully read the description of the spell in the SRD and try to interpret things literally, I don't know what to think.

It's all a jumbled, confusing mess of information... almost like I'm trying to figure out what's going on when I can only hear half of the conversation...

 

[Shard O'Glase]

While that is certainly logical, I looked up the few non-instantaneous area effect damage-dealing spells I could remember off the top of my head (e.g., acid fog, cloudkill, wall of fire, wall of thorns, whirlwind) and all of them specifically speak to taking damage "every round" (or similar) or per distance traveled. Given that, I'd say the default should go the other way: a spell only causes damage every round if it says it causes damage every round - which blade barrier doesn't.

Good point. It just doesn't make sense though. God this spell is crap on so many levels.

 

[Stalker0]

Good point. It just doesn't make sense though. God this spell is crap on so many levels.

Amen brotha

 

[0-hr]

Amen brotha

Hey, I agree with Stalker0! (on this at least). I think that's a good point to bow out (or bail out) of the argument. C'ya in the next discussion.

 

[Stalker0]

Hey, I agree with Stalker0! (on this at least). I think that's a good point to bow out (or bail out) of the argument. C'ya in the next discussion.

Testify!!!

 

[warhookdm]

While that is certainly logical, I looked up the few non-instantaneous area effect damage-dealing spells I could remember off the top of my head (e.g., acid fog, cloudkill, wall of fire, wall of thorns, whirlwind) and all of them specifically speak to taking damage "every round" (or similar) or per distance traveled. Given that, I'd say the default should go the other way: a spell only causes damage every round if it says it causes damage every round - which blade barrier doesn't.

I hate to break this to you, but the spell description specifically does state that you continue to take damage every round you remain in the area of effect.
"Any creature passing through the blade barrier takes 1d6 of slashing damage per caster level (maximum20d6)."
and:
"Creatures within the blade barrier when it is invoked take the damage as well. They can negate the damage with a successful Reflex saving throw,provided they can and do physically leave the area of the blades by the shortest possible route. (Italics mine) Once the barrier is in place anything entering or passing through the blades automatically takes damage."

For my campaign, I have decided that items which aren't wedged or weighted down will get a save. Success indicates that the blades knock the item in question out of the area of effect. In practice, this means that the weapons and shields are likely to survive - other armor (being weighed down by a body in 1 case) probably will not. "Soft" magical items (boots, gloves, belts, etc.) will not survive - they don't have enough weight to be deflected out of the area in 1 round, as a general rule, and tend to be secured to bodies anyway.

Fortunately for me, 1 of the affected players has already determined that most of his gear was destroyed by the Firestorm spell (he is a "good" rules-lawyer player; this decision will likely cause an argument with him).

The affected PC's are going to have to replace quite a large amount of magical gear even with this ruling in place. The dead PC's were 12th to 15th level.