Dead in a Blade Barrier, what happens to the stuff?

[Dingleberry]

I hate to break this to you, but the spell description specifically does state that you continue to take damage every round you remain in the area of effect.
"Any creature passing through the blade barrier takes 1d6 of slashing damage per caster level (maximum20d6)."
and:
"Creatures within the blade barrier when it is invoked take the damage as well. They can negate the damage with a successful Reflex saving throw,provided they can and do physically leave the area of the blades by the shortest possible route. (Italics mine) Once the barrier is in place anything entering or passing through the blades automatically takes damage."

Don't feel too bad about breaking it to me, since I don't read your quoted passage to say anything about damage per round. It speaks only to whether a creature within the barrier can negate the damage ("per caster level" - no mention of per round or per movement) with a save - if a creature can't get out (held, immobilized, etc.), it doesn't get a save. It doesn't say anything about continuing to take damage.

If it did, an 11th-level Law cleric could combine hold monster and blade barrier for 11d6 damage every round for 11 rounds with a single failed Will save - a good tactic against opponents with good Reflex but poor Will saves!

 

[Tzarevitch]

Don't feel too bad about breaking it to me, since I don't read your quoted passage to say anything about damage per round. It speaks only to whether a creature within the barrier can negate the damage ("per caster level" - no mention of per round or per movement) with a save - if a creature can't get out (held, immobilized, etc.), it doesn't get a save. It doesn't say anything about continuing to take damage.

If it did, an 11th-level Law cleric could combine hold monster and blade barrier for 11d6 damage every round for 11 rounds with a single failed Will save - a good tactic against opponents with good Reflex but poor Will saves!

Actually, it speaks to the conditions under which something in the area area of effect takes damage not just when something in the barrier can negate damage. You are using an incredibly narrow reading of what the text says.

The description is not quite as direct as most lingering damage spells but it does state the following two conditions that occur wiht regard to interacting with the spell:

1. If you are in the area when the blade barrier is invoked, you DO get a save to avoid but only if you "can and do" leave by the quickest possible route.

2. If the spell is already there when you enter the area, you "automatically" take damage.

The problem with the spell description is that it seems to imply a less than obvious definition of the word "automatically" and it only refers to what happens if you "enter" not what happens when you are still in the area of the spell. You can however easily infer what happens if you remain in the area of the spell from #1 since it is very clear and specific and it defines the only condition under which you receive a save.

If you only get a save when you are in the area when; a) the spell is invoked AND; b) you leave the area immediately by the quickest possible route, then if you remain in the area you have not left the area as defined in #1. (unless there is some other specific rule that generates its own special condition like SR). This means that you are NOT entitled to the saving throw that #1 grants (which is the only condition that the spell lists that grants a save).

Since the spell has a duration, it has its full effect for its full duration unless some other rule says otherwise. So, if you are stuck in the spell's area, that means you spend multiple rounds subject to the spell's effect without the benefit of a saving throw (since only the very specific conditions of #1 grant one and you cannot comply with those conditions since you cannot move).

So yes, if you fail a save against a Hold Person spell in a blade barrier, you'll die a grizzly death.

Tzarevitch

 

[Stalker0]

I agree with Dingleberry's interpretation that the damage spells that do damage over multiple round do say they do. Blade Barrier does not, you duck under teh spell or find an open spot in the field. AS long as you don't do anything in the field you should be fine.


But guys lets face it. Blade barrier is a horribly worded spell, it is so ambiguous that there is no grounds to argue with, because everything about the spell really is easy to interprete multiple ways. I say we just let it rest, play it the way you want to IYC, and I say we will all just have to be happy with it.

 

[Avatar28]

Okay, I think I can end this debate right now. I emailed Wizards customer service. Here's a copy of the email:

Does blade barrier destroy items that fall into it? It seems to have
generated quite a discussion over at Enworld.


http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30357


Specifically the situation is this: Blade barrier is cast along the
ground. A high level fighter is flying and gets hit and is dead/dying and
falls into the blade barrier. What happens to his stuff?


A) it's destroyed. 1100 rounds of blade barrier pretty much guarantees
that even if it gets a save, if it's going to have to make that save every
round, it's going to fail it eventually and be destroyed


B) it only has to make one save. If it fails, it's destroyed, if it saves,
it survives


C) It's not harmed by the spell


D) mundane equipment is destroyed, magical equipment survives


--Magic items don't even need to make a save, they will be unaffected. Normal items will take damage and will likely be destroyed in the example you give.


Also, in regards to damage duration. Does damage occur every round that
the creature/object is in the spell or only once for the entire duration?


--Yes, damage will occur every round you are in it.


Thanks!
********************************************************
Matt
Wizards of the Coast - Game Support
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Please quote this e-mail in any reply.

 

[Stalker0]

Okay, I think I can end this debate right now. I emailed Wizards customer service. Here's a copy of the email:

Customer Service is notoriously wrong about a lot of rules issues. However, its nice to have another opinion from an "official" source.

 

[Avatar28]

Well, I've also emailed the sage, but I don't know if he's going to respond or not. However, the response from Matt DOES seem to fit with the rules pretty well.

From their response, my understanding is that the spell itself doesn't do the damage. The spell conjures the blades and the blades do the damage each round. The blades themselves are non-magical. That's why creatures immune to slashing damage aren't harmed. A magical item, being tougher, is unfazed by the mundane blades.

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

A thought:
If your head is above the disc, and your feet are below the disc, you are quite literally "passing through" the blade barrier. Anything continouosly intersecting the area takes damage every round. Now, if you can get low enough to the ground to avoid it, that's different. Of course, being prone gives a whole extra set of problems to deal with.

 

[Locpik]

I don't know... I would agree with it not harming objects... Think about the damage you could do with that 6th lv spell if it did...
non-magical weapons and arnor would not stand a chance, you could put it in a field with an army and knock out all thier weapons and armor, thats ALMOST as good as a wish, (In a large battle)

and think of the time you have to spend rolling saving throws for all the iteams, you couldn't let it slide until the end of the game, you couldn't use the Londbow if it broke in the blade barrier..

 

[Stalker0]

I don't know... I would agree with it not harming objects... Think about the damage you could do with that 6th lv spell if it did...
non-magical weapons and arnor would not stand a chance, you could put it in a field with an army and knock out all thier weapons and armor, thats ALMOST as good as a wish, (In a large battle)

and think of the time you have to spend rolling saving throws for all the iteams, you couldn't let it slide until the end of the game, you couldn't use the Londbow if it broke in the blade barrier..

If any members of an army was actually in the blade barrier, you woulnd't have to worry about the items, the men would be skewered. Most members of an army are warriors, not even 1st level fighters.