Tectuktitlay
Explorer
No idea why it double posted that. ![Er... what? o_O o_O](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
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Yes. It means not sober.There's a difference between alcohol flowing, and being drunk. It was clearly specified drunk, and that word does in fact have a very specific meaning.
In fact it is the same, unless you're using a much more limiting definition of drunk than I am.Having one drink? A few? Nah. Being drunk? Even just a little drunk? Not the same.
I have to flog this horse every time it gets mentioned, so here goes once again:I can't currently find the reference, but WotC has stated that its polls have shown this sort of thing for a good long while, and that's why the more recent editions have been designed for shorter campaigns.
One of these days, if I ever move to your town, I'll have to start a game with you in it. Two years? Hell, we're only just getting nicely started!Speaking solely for myself--yes, more anecdotes!--WotC's polling is accurate enough. The longest campaign I, or any of my friends, were ever involved in was still less than two years.
If they counted on old players getting the new edition regardless, I can see the logic in that move.I have to flog this horse every time it gets mentioned, so here goes once again:
The big customer survey WotC did in the run-up to 3e was deeply flawed, in that they threw out all responses from anyone over a certain age (I think 35) meaning many players who had started with 0e or 1e - and thus had been gaming the longest - were not heard.
Perhaps, but it's all I've got, and I suspect it's more than many.Slightly above anecdote, but well below concrete data. It's a pretty perfect example of an extremely limited and inherently biased sample size.
The simple mechanical answer: slower level advancement. Sure there's other changes you can make, but that one is by far the most important. In 1e changing that was the easiest thing imaginable: either very much reduce or completely drop the xp-for-gp rule. In 3e it's harder as there's a bit more knock-on to deal with, most notably that wealth-by-level guidelines go out the window in a hurry, but I've seen it done. I was in a 3e game that went for 10 years (I was in for 7 of that), but it only did so because the DM made a pile of changes going in to make it advance at a rate more like our 1e games.http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?217967-Campaign-Length
So 2008, just as/before 4e came out. I'm not sure how you can say a given campaign can't last X years in a specific system. Or, really, a somewhat modified version of the same system, with varying levels of tweaking. Show me any data to back that up? What makes an AD&D campaign potentially last any longer than a 3.X campaign, exactly?
1e really goes only from levels 1 to about 12, but they can very easily be made to take longer to arrive.What difference in design alters the fundamental flow of a campaign? Levels 1-20? Check.
Monsters less deadly in 3e? Surely you jest.Same rough tiers of gaining access to new effects via spells and magic items? Check. Monsters roughly the same? If anything, a bit less deadly, meaning characters are a bit more likely to make it further.
Though if done right you shouldn't need these.Potentially unlimited levels beyond 20 if you wish? Check.
By listening to what WotC said at the time.How do you figure 3e was specifically designed for 1-2 year campaigns?
Pathfinder discusses this and - to its credit - even gives three different advancement tracks. I don't remember 3e saying anything much about slowing things down, unless it was in a splat of some kind (I pretty much only got the core 3).Like 1e/AD&D, 3e specifically discusses at length varying XP rewards to shorten or lengthen the time between gaining levels to set a pace appropriate to your own game.
Well, it's supposed to be 13 encounters per level in 3e, right? That's what it's designed for, meaning a 1-20 campaign should as designed be about 250-ish encounters long.That they put a somewhat more comprehensive structure to XP rewards isn't indicative of designing it to last a certain length.
Both statements are or can be true of both editions.*AD&D could quite easily (and has, in my own first-hand experience) be paced at a level right there with 3e. It completely depends on the adventures played in. AD&D explicitly states a character can gain a level as often as once per adventure, or as long as once per 10 adventures. 3e on the other hand has it paced at roughly a number of encounters, but...and this is rather critical...that number of encounters varies considerably between adventures, such that some adventures have so few actual encounters that no one should come close to leveling during that adventure.
Yes, but does this actually work in practice? I've never played 4e so all I can go on is what I read in places like this, but it seems rare that anyone's made it work and some of those who have are those who could probably make an enjoyable 10-year campaign out of a game of Monopoly.4e...yes, 4e was designed to be paced at roughly three long adventures per tier. So over 30 levels you should roughly play nine longish adventures. However...4e explicitly has a section explaining how and why you should raise or lower XP rewards to increase or decrease the rate of advancement. To specifically accommodate any length of campaign. The system inherently tells you when and how to stretch a campaign out as long as you desire.
Which we try to do; usually about 42-46 sessions per year for a regular game.And without modifying anything, is designed for around 16 months of play from 1-30, but only if you actually play once a week, every week, all year.
From what I can tell 5e is probably flexible enough to handle almost any advance rate.5e is unusual in that it doesn't actually list an explicit baseline pacing. The closest it comes is the rough xp appropriate per fully packed adventuring day. But it also defines an adventuring day of consisting of ~6-8 medium to hard encounters. Which, on most actual days out and about, is probably quite a lot when not in the midst of a war, a rather populous dungeon, etc. And even then, with that high number of medium-to-hard encounters, it scales. You should, according to that, jump from level 1 to 2 in a single day, but then it gets longer and longer, to ~6.5 such days at level 11, and ~10 at level 19. But that is running under an assumption of quite a few rough encounters each of those days, which really means it's more likely stretched out quite a bit.
Which then brings us full circle: we have to find a way to reward and incent those who get it done rather than those who stand by and then loot the fallen, or who take the adventure off.And...interestingly enough...the length of a campaign is so much easier to handle...wait for it...if you remove XP from the reward structure entirely, and simply level everyone when you want to level.![]()
Something that multiple editions, including both 4e and 5e, explicitly point out as an option. 3e does so in a roundabout manner, suggesting an alternate structure where everyone gets a set level of XP per encounter of session, determined on the fly by the DM, with all the characters getting the same amount. Which is just another way of saying: level the characters when you feel like it (but hand out the XP so they feel like it's a reward).
To me it doesn't make it hard at all; I sometimes feel like I'm still here in spite of their decisions rather than because of them.And assuming both you and I were over 35 at the time, and seeing that we're both here still, it makes it kinda hard accusing them of doing it wrongly...![]()
If they counted on old players getting the new edition regardless, I can see the logic in that move.
And assuming both you and I were over 35 at the time, and seeing that we're both here still, it makes it kinda hard accusing them of doing it wrongly...![]()
We replaced our pretzels with nachos
That's a deal-breaker right there!![]()