Death and Retirement

[Patlin]

I think that Living ENWorld has also become our world too, and it will be massively frustrating to me at least as a GM if someone tells me that I can't put in 9th-level NPCs if I want to have 9th-level NPCs for my plotline just because they don't want to allow them. It seems to me, though, thankfully, that the Judges are pretty reasonable about these kinds of things (mostly because I've only seen things that struck me as silly and terribly restraining mentioned by a variety of non-Judges, and when I've asked, the Judges have been helpful about letting me have control as the GM).

I pretty much agree with all of that, with the caveat that I do respect the spirit of the rule. One of my NPC's (the Fey lord) would only be an apropriate challenge for an epic party, but is placed in a manner that he can have only the most minor and indirect impact on LEW. If we ever get to the point where LEW has epic level PCs (in about 2023?) a DM could always make this NPC more active, but he's safely bottled up in the meantime.

And no, (back on track) the Fey Lord's tremendous power does not include any ability to ressurect or reincarnate. I'll make his abilities crystal clear in the almanac when the Faerie Woods is complete.

 

[azmodean]

What I meant by the current proposal making access to ressurection easier was that IIRC it was previously established that casters of a level to use ressurection magic were out of bounds, and this is a proposed exception to that rule to fill the (percieved) need for a character capable of casting ressurection spells.

I think the intent of limiting high-level NPCs is to keep them from being a "general resource" available to the PCs. If a higher level NPC is introduced in an adventure, but it is clear that they are not accessable outside an adventure, I think it maintains the spirit in which the rule was intended. Similarly it does not seem to be a problem to supply a low-level party with equipment not necessarily suitable for their level, as long as they do not keep said item after the adventure.

This is the kind of thing I think all of us are hoping will be clarified by this discussion.

 

[Knight Otu]

As said, higher level NPCs do exist. They just aren't usually very accessible. Elminster won't come to train his dog to apport a healing wand that happens to have the command word "fetch!" or something like that.

 

[El Jefe]

I think that Living ENWorld has also become our world too, and it will be massively frustrating to me at least as a GM if someone tells me that I can't put in 9th-level NPCs if I want to have 9th-level NPCs for my plotline just because they don't want to allow them. It seems to me, though, thankfully, that the Judges are pretty reasonable about these kinds of things (mostly because I've only seen things that struck me as silly and terribly restraining mentioned by a variety of non-Judges, and when I've asked, the Judges have been helpful about letting me have control as the GM).

I don't see a problem with that so long as the basic premise of the world is respected (that high level NPCs don't hang around every street corner throwing 8th level spells "just for kicks").

And obviously, something has to be out there, or at least have the potential to be out there, or LEW is going to run out of things for high-level characters to do rather quickly. For example, there was a baby dragon in Treasure of Tierra Padre. Well, we know it probably wasn't very old, which means not too long ago a high level, very powerful dragon laid an egg somewhere in LEW, maybe even close to Orussus. "Mama" is still out there, just hidden, secret or sleeping.

Maybe LEW is just emerging from a "Time without Heroes or Great Deeds" into a new age. Civilizations rise and fall over centuries, why not the intensity of challenges available for adventurers?

 

[azmodean]

I think that is the idea El Jefe, I use this concept in my own games sometimes.
"The previous generation of mighty heroes (2-3 generations back) pushed back the forces of darkness in this world, but one or a few at a time they either succumbed to old age, were utterly destroyed, or moved on to another mode of existence. Slowly the forces of darkness have gained strength, and as they have done so a new generation of heroes is arising to confront them."

As PC characters hit higher and higher levels, the restrictions on high-level NPCs will probably ease, and the higher level PCs will be able to handle this sort of thing. As far as a Cleric being able to cast Ressurection spells and gain a lot of money, it's no more money than is available for casting other high-level spells on the behaf of other PCs, and if this proposal is adopted there will always be the alternative of going to the pole if the PCs who can cast it charge too much.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think that is the idea El Jefe, I use this concept in my own games sometimes.
"The previous generation of mighty heroes (2-3 generations back) pushed back the forces of darkness in this world, but one or a few at a time they either succumbed to old age, were utterly destroyed, or moved on to another mode of existence. Slowly the forces of darkness have gained strength, and as they have done so a new generation of heroes is arising to confront them."

As PC characters hit higher and higher levels, the restrictions on high-level NPCs will probably ease, and the higher level PCs will be able to handle this sort of thing. As far as a Cleric being able to cast Ressurection spells and gain a lot of money, it's no more money than is available for casting other high-level spells on the behaf of other PCs, and if this proposal is adopted there will always be the alternative of going to the pole if the PCs who can cast it charge too much.

I guess that theme fits well with my adventure...Zarindas's legendary ancestor who beat back the demon and now it has broken free

 

[Patlin]

Lets use the mechanical aspect of Knight Otu's proposal (the levels lost from death/retirement/creating a new character, etc.).

But, for simplicities sake, for the costs of resurrection, lets just say the following:

Resurrection is available in Living EN World. It is considered common knowledge (DC 5 intelligence check) that there is a temple of Hyrag in the Godspires district of the City of Sanctus near the northernmost post of En World where even the most powerful resurrection magic can be performed by a sufficiently powerful priest. The costs to perform such a spell are expensive (the same as the cost listed in the Dungeon Masters Guide), and the material components can be purchased on site for their normal value. There may very well be other temples capable of performing this feat, but none of them speak publicly about these services. The temple of Hyrag is glad to perform this service for anyone of any alignment, but absolutely never discounts the cost, even for a priest of Hyrag.

How do we deal with retiring PCs?
Not every adventurer stays one until his death. Some may want to retire before meeting an untimely end, or because they feel they achieved their goals and have no reason to further embark on quests. As such, a player may decide to retire one of his characters, possibly to make room for a new one, since the number of PCs a player may have is limited.

Retirement is permanent. You cannot choose to return from retirement.

When you decide to retire a character, keep the character sheet intact, but preface it with a note that the character has been retired, and at what level that has happened. If you decide to retire a character of 4th level or higher, you may start a new character at a higher level than 1st. If you do so, add a link to the post of the new character.

The new character starts two levels lower than the retired one, and has the appropriate starting wealth for that level. However, the character may not buy items that cost more than 1/5 of his starting wealth, with the exception of equipment found in the PHB (the Equipment file of the SRD) and potions (in the Magic Items IV file of the SRD).

For example, a new character started at 2nd level has a starting wealth of 900 gp. He may not buy items that would cost more than 180 gps.

Retiring a character this way opens up the possibility of playing a character of an availabel race with more than one Racial Hit Die and/or a Level Adjustment of +1 or higher.

(If you wish, you can mark your retired PC as public, effectively turning him into an NPC that DMs can use in their adventures, and possibly develop further.)

Regarding both quoted items above, I vote YES.

 

[Manzanita]

I vote Yes, as well, on those two.

It sidesteps the debate about whether it needs to be a special quest to get there. By sidestepping the debate, we leave it in the hands of whatever DM is involved, which is fine by me.

One positive thing that has come from this thread is the idea that in the past there were mythic heroes and dangers, but that in the recent past, these have been muted. I like this idea & look forward to having it expanded upon, perhaps in the chronology thread.

 

[El Jefe]

Let's make it official. YES on Patlin's quotes from KOTU and Creamsteak. And Patlin, thanks for prodding this forward!

 

[LogicsFate]

Let's say I make it to 4th level, join an adventure and die, My campanions are all first level and don't have much interest in raising me... Would I be able to make anouther character at 2nd level or I'm I back to first?