Defeat The Vile 5' Step

[blargney the second]

Option #1: Eberron has a feat called Pursue. It lets you spend an action point to follow someone when they make a 5' step away from you. Whee!

Option #2: Take Improved Unarmed Strike and use a reach weapon. You now threaten 5' and 10' away.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You can Sunder as an AoO (Main 3.5e FAQ, page 30.)

No, you can't.

Sunder does not have the "This may be used in place of an attack" footnote, unlike Grapple, Disarm, and Trip.

Accordingly, Sundering is its own standard action.

 

[focallength]

all great ideas I especally like the pressing attack feat. We pretty much play low level games as we start out at 1st always, and the game were in right now is fairly low magic. So some options wont work and others arent fesible. I just think that the 5' step is abused and broken as far as escaping combat that is, if you want to run away use the withdrawl action but taking a 5 to leave combat only to full attack with a bow just dosent seem right it hobbles the fighters. And most mages use 5' step to d door away and peper you with spells. Like I said its mainly used to get away from fighters who are clobbering you.

 

[Terevar]

Or you could try this simple rule:


A 5' step does not provoke an attack of opportunity so long as the action it is combined with does not provoke an AoO.

Step only - no AoO
Step and melee - no AoO
Step with anything that doesn't provoke AoO - no AoO

Step and cast - AoO
Step and fire - AoO
Step with anything that does provoke AoO - AoO!


I like this rule because it allows you to safely close and maneuver around dangerous foes while preventing archers and casters from abusing the system.

I don't believe it is necessary to force a warrior to waste a feat or action in order to counter this abuse.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Just dont get it... Abuse the 5' Step? How?!?

focallength: I dont see how this rule can be abused...
{Unless your DM is allowing a 5' step followed by movement and attacks...}

Breaking it down:

Archers can step back and do a full attack without drawing an AoO for thier efforts.....
Fighters can do a full attack and then step back without drawing an AoO for thier efforts....
What makes the Archers actions an 'Abuse' and the Fighters 'normal'? So you get hit with pointy sticks instead of pointy swords. You can still 5' step right up to them an full attack them right back.

Mage steps back and Dimension doors away to pepper you from a distance....
Mage makes his Defensive Casting check, cast Dimesion door from right next to you so he can pepper you from a distance...
If a 5' step is an 'abuse', than clearly being able to cast defensively is an abuse.

Its called tactical options. You chose to use sharp pointy things that only reach out so far. The enemy is chosing to use things to hit you from a distance. Perhaps its time to rethink your tactical plan and look into ranged weapons yourself. Your DM has obviously learned that your tactics have a weakness. He should not be exploiting them in every combat.. but a smart opponent will gladly use your weakness against you.

 

[Delemental]

So, what is stopping your fighter from taking a 5' step on his turn right next to the offending archer/wizard and then full attacking them?

The 5' step can be offensive as well as defensive.

 

[Spatula]

Just to note, that once you get to a certain level a mage doesn't need to worry about being right next to a warrior if he's been keeping his Concentration skill up (Defensive Casting).

 

[Jdvn1]

Just to note, that once you get to a certain level a mage doesn't need to worry about being right next to a warrior if he's been keeping his Concentration skill up (Defensive Casting).

Once you reach a certain level, the Wizard doesn't need to worry about being right next to a Fighter because he has Fly or Greater Invisibility or Prismatic Sphere or even Spider Climb...

 

[Diirk]

You can Sunder as an AoO (Main 3.5e FAQ, page 30.)

If you don't want to sunder the bow (because the archer most likely has a really good attack bonus and a big enhancement bonus on his bow so it will be hard to sunder), sunder the quiver.

Even if you could sunder with an AoO (I believe the faq is making stuff up on this one, as posted above), whats the point ? If you're going to sunder the bow, why not just do it on your turn rather than hoping the archer doesn't do something to thwart your AoO efforts ?

 

[the Jester]

First off, unlike many others, I find fighters to be one of the most powerful classes in 3e dnd, including at high levels (given reasonable gear). I don't find the 5' step abusive; imho it's a vital feature of the entire 'tactical combat' formula 3e runs on for combat. It is pretty much the only way to move in a round when you take a full-round action... seems to me like without it battles turn stagnant. I don't think 'retreat and cast' is abusive- how else is a low-level wizard gonna survive to use his spells? And 5'-full attack is the melee fighter's answer, which is pretty, um, effective against an equal level wizard.