Mal Malenkirk
First Post
Rashak Mani said:
Yes it can.
Your neutrally aligned summoned shadow companion does not enter one of the two exception. Protection from evil therefore prevents contact. So does Protection from Evil/Law/Chaos.
Defense against Shadow Dancers Shadow !!
- Thread starter Rashak Mani
- Start date
Yes it can.
Your neutrally aligned summoned shadow companion does not enter one of the two exception. Protection from evil therefore prevents contact. So does Protection from Evil/Law/Chaos.
Re: Re: Defense against Shadow Dancers Shadow !!
Actually, I don't think so. Read the spells. They say "good" summoned creatures, "lawful" summoned creatures, etc. They only protect you against a summoned creature of the appropriate alignment. Unless I'm missing an errata on this. So, you either need to allow for a new Protection from Neutral spell, or just allow ANY Protection spell to work vs. the coin flipping neutral pcs. I vote for the latter fix.
Mal Malenkirk said:
Actually, I don't think so. Read the spells. They say "good" summoned creatures, "lawful" summoned creatures, etc. They only protect you against a summoned creature of the appropriate alignment. Unless I'm missing an errata on this. So, you either need to allow for a new Protection from Neutral spell, or just allow ANY Protection spell to work vs. the coin flipping neutral pcs. I vote for the latter fix.
I still argue that you can't dispel people's familiars/companions whether wizard or shadowdancer. They can't be hedged out by protection any more than gensai or other native outsiders. Conjuration spells are supposed to be what summoned/conjured mean.
Protection spells protect against summoned and outsiders of all except the opposite alignment, therefore they all protect against neutral as it is not opposite of anything.
Protection spells protect against summoned and outsiders of all except the opposite alignment, therefore they all protect against neutral as it is not opposite of anything.
Zhure
First Post
Magic Circle against Evil is a chain spell from Protection from Evil. It says, "Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned or conjured creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good elementals and outsiders are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned or conjured creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature"
In the Shadowdancer description it specifically says, "Summon Shadow: At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow’s alignment matches that of the shadowdancer. The summoned shadow cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. "
It seems pretty clear to me a Magic Circle will block a Shadowdancer's companion.
As for familiars, "Familiar: A sorcerer or a wizard can call a familiar. Doing so takes a day and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp."
Familiars aren't summoned, though they are "called." While a case could be made that familiars are called via some sort of calling spell*, it's a class ability not tied to a spell. Unlike Druid's and Ranger's Animal Companions which is clearly tied to Animal Friendship. Calling in this case seems to be done via a ritual that while it's magical in nature, and the familiar is a magical beast, the process isn't specifically covered by the normal spell-like rules. In other words, a Familiar doesn't vanish in an antimagic field whereas a Shadowdancer's companion would probably be temporarily dispelled by an antimagic field.
I can certainly see either ruling, but I think a strict interpretation of the rules conforms to what I've outlined above.
Hope that helps,
Greg
*Calling: The spell fully transports a creature from another plane to the plane the character is on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can't be dispelled.
In the Shadowdancer description it specifically says, "Summon Shadow: At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow’s alignment matches that of the shadowdancer. The summoned shadow cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. "
It seems pretty clear to me a Magic Circle will block a Shadowdancer's companion.
As for familiars, "Familiar: A sorcerer or a wizard can call a familiar. Doing so takes a day and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp."
Familiars aren't summoned, though they are "called." While a case could be made that familiars are called via some sort of calling spell*, it's a class ability not tied to a spell. Unlike Druid's and Ranger's Animal Companions which is clearly tied to Animal Friendship. Calling in this case seems to be done via a ritual that while it's magical in nature, and the familiar is a magical beast, the process isn't specifically covered by the normal spell-like rules. In other words, a Familiar doesn't vanish in an antimagic field whereas a Shadowdancer's companion would probably be temporarily dispelled by an antimagic field.
I can certainly see either ruling, but I think a strict interpretation of the rules conforms to what I've outlined above.
Hope that helps,
Greg
*Calling: The spell fully transports a creature from another plane to the plane the character is on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can't be dispelled.
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
jontherev said:
But It has been provided. TWICE in this page of the thread! You even answered to my post that contained that quote and totally ignored it!
Here it is for a third time;
It is clear; Protection from evil prevents bodily contact by a summoned creature such as the shadow companion. The only exceptions are clearly stated. A shadow is neither a good outsider or a good elemental. It's an undead, and a neutral one at a that in our current example.
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Mal Malenkirk said:
Thanks for the unnecessary condecension. I believe I was the first person to provide that very quote on this thread. Now perhaps you'll actually read my post.
No it certainly is NOT clear. Note, that I'm going on the SRD here since I'm not at home. 99% of the time the SRD is right. Here is the description for Protection from Good:"As protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from good creatures, and good summoned or conjured creatures cannot touch the subject."
All Protection spells say this except PfEvil. I think it is a typo or mistake that PfEvil does not specify that it only should work against only EVIL summoned creatures (and opposite aligned elemental/outsiders). Otherwise, it doesn't make sense logically. All of these spells should work the same imo. So, looking at ALL of the spells TOGETHER, I think PfEvil works against EVIL summoned creatures, including neutral or evil outsiders or elementals. Think about it. Why should a Protection from Evil spell work against a Celestial Hawk? That makes absolutely NO sense when you have another spell you should use instead. I think it is confusing and needs clarification. And, as an example, Protection from Law would work against chaotic summoned creatures or neutral or lawful elementals/outsiders. Does anyone understand my point or am I just going insane?
At the very least, admit that it's not exactly crystal clear.Mal Malenkirk
First Post
So you are interpreting a spell by using the definition of another spell?
Protection from evil is the original spell, the one with the full description. It's the one we are supposed to refer to when interpreting the other protection spell, not the other way around.
Protection from evil is the original spell, the one with the full description. It's the one we are supposed to refer to when interpreting the other protection spell, not the other way around.
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